Thursday, October 28, 2010

The Negro Leagues Museum

Less than two years ago, I wrote what in some ways was the saddest blog post I've written. I wrote about how I was breaking away from the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. In the time since I wrote it, people keep asking me to write again about it and, more, to give my heart back to the place. I just couldn't do it. I'm just being honest. Something broke inside.

The NLBM -- that not-so-memorable abbreviation that the museum has long used to identify itself -- was a big part of my life for many years. This was, in large part, because of my friendship with Buck O'Neil. I loved Buck, of course, and because of that I loved the museum in Kansas City that was, in large part, his vision. It was built on the corner of 18th and Vine, that famous corner for the Kansas City jazz scene. Buck wanted people to know about the Negro Leagues. Before Jackie Robinson, before 1947 (and for a few years after), there was no Major League baseball dream for African Americans (or dark skinned Latinos). Baseball was the only grand American team sport then, the true National Pastime, and for black children across the country there was no Major League hope, no New York Yankees daydream, no St. Louis Cardinals wish.



There was, instead, the Negro Leagues -- a bumpy, wonderful, insolvent, successful, willful, troubling and glorious gem of a league where players played joyous and violent baseball for love and, for the most part, a barely living wage. Everything about the Negro Leagues was contrast and conflict including the reason for its very existence. There is little doubt that some of the greatest players in baseball history -- Oscar Charleston, Leon Day, Turkey Stearnes, Smokey Joe Williams, Bullet Joe Rogan, Martin Dihigo, Mule Suttles to name only a few -- played in the Negro Leagues, and even less doubt that almost nobody remembered them. People knew Satchel Paige, certainly. Baseball fans might have known Josh Gibson and Cool Papa Bell. But America's collective memory had no place for the leagues and for those extraordinary men who played before their time began, before 1947.*

*I often make this point, but it is worth making again: Do you want to know how good the Negro Leagues were? Well, consider who came out of the Negro Leagues in those early years:

1. Jackie Robinson (1947)
-- Hall of Famer, one of the great second basemen ever).
2. Larry Doby (1947)
-- Hall of Famer, a 141 OPS+ from 1947-55, when he was one of best players in the game.
3. Hank Thompson (1947)
-- Busted in first call-up with dysfunctional St. Louis Browns, but returned to Giants in 1949 and was a good player for eight seasons.
4. Willard Brown (1947)
-- Busted in short call-up to same dysfunctional Browns, but was already 32. Hall of Famer for his play in Negro Leagues.
5. Dan Bankhead (1947)
-- Was considered a can't-miss prospect but, according to his son, he never could handle the extreme pressure that was placed on him as first African American pitcher in big leagues.
6. Roy Campanella (1948)
-- Hall of Famer, three-time MVP, one of the great catchers in baseball history.
7. Satchel Paige (1948)
-- Hall of Famer, and was already a legend by the time he was called up to the big leagues at, well, whatever age he wanted to be.
8. Don Newcombe (1949)
-- Rookie of the Year, Cy Young winner, MVP winner.
9. Monte Irvin (1949)
-- Hall of Famer, didn't get his chance in big leagues until he was 30, still was a terrific player. Led the league in RBIs in 1951.
10. Sam Jethroe (1950)
-- The Jet did not make the big leagues until he was 33, but he still twice led the big leagues in steals and in power-speed number.
11. Minnie Minoso (1951)
-- One of the best "old" players in baseball history, he was absolutely one of the best players of the 1950s and, in my mind, should be in the Hall of Fame.
12. Willie Mays (1951)
-- Hall of Famer, of course, is introduced at Giants games simply as "the greatest player in baseball history." And if he isn't, he is certainly in the photograph.

That's it -- first four years of call-ups, 12 players and of those 12, seven are in the Hall of Fame (and you might have the best pitcher and best all-around every day player in baseball history), an eighth (Minoso) could be in the Hall of Fame, a ninth (Newcombe) was a truly great player. So you tell me: How good was the Negro Leagues? Nine out of the first 12 were remarkable players. And over the next few years Hall of Famers Hank Aaron and Ernie Banks, who played briefly in the Negro Leagues, would become big leaguers, and so would MVP Elston Howard.

So, now in your mind, back up the breaking of the color barrier to 1937. And instead of those guys the names might have been Josh Gibson (of course) and Buck Leonard and Leon Day and Hilton Smith and Willie Wells and Cool Papa Bell.


The Negro Leagues remain a difficult thing to celebrate. For obvious reasons, almost nobody mourned its death. If anything, people mourned that it had ever existed at all. How do you celebrate an anachronism? How do you commemorate a piece of America that was not touched by what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature? And yet, as Buck would say, these guys COULD PLAY, MAN. These teams were centerpieces of bustling black communities. The biggest games were played on Sundays after church, following Saturday nights overflowing with jazz -- this is American history too. Buck dedicated the later part of his life to keeping this history alive, these memories alive, to keeping the players alive, to reminding people that, yes, Willie Mays was the GREATEST MAJOR LEAGUE player he ever saw, but Oscar Charleston was the GREATEST PLAYER he ever saw.

I was lucky enough to be one of many infused by Buck's energy, his enthusiasm, his optimism. Whatever Buck wanted me to do to help, I did. Over the years, I served as a master of ceremonies or panel member or something for dozens of Negro Leagues events. I spread the gospel. We as a family donated a lot of money -- or at least a lot of money for us. There are so many good causes, and I want to help out in as much as I can -- don't most of us want to help as much as we can? -- but the NLBM was personal to me, special to me. I say all this only to offer context. I loved the place.

When Buck died, he made it clear what he wanted to happen. He wanted Bob Kendrick to run the museum. I have always had to be careful here because Bob is one of my closest friends, and one of the best people I know. Bob was also the marketing director at the museum and the man at the heart -- from my point of view -- of the remarkable success the museum achieved. The place built up from a one room rental office (with various people around town taking turns to pay the rent) into a national treasure, honored by Congress, visited by the biggest names in sports and life, and I thought Bob was the imagination and energetic force behind it all.

And this is where the story turns. In a process where the less said the better, the board did not hire Bob Kendrick to run the museum. Instead, by one vote, they voted in a man named Greg Baker. I did not know (still do not know) Greg Baker -- which was troubling to me since for almost 10 years I had attended or hosted more or less every major Negro Leagues museum event, and I had never once seen him. But it was the various stories I started hearing from people that concerned me more. I don't think it's right to go into it here. But it was made clear to me that the museum was going in a different direction, away from the vision of Buck O'Neil, away from the ethos that had made me fall in love with the museum and the story in the first place. I will tell you that The Kansas City Star did a long interview with Baker where he laid out his new vision for the museum -- a vision that included only two kind of things: 1. Things that were utterly impossible; 2. Things that the museum had long been doing though he seemed unaware of it.

Sometimes, I badly want to be wrong. I often AM badly wrong, but not usually on those things. When the Royals hired Buddy Bell, I thought it was a badly mismatched hire ... but because Buddy is among my favorite people in baseball I wanted to be wrong. I never wanted more to be wrong than with the Negro Leagues Museum direction. But I was pretty sure I wasn't wrong. I was pretty sure that the direction they were taking the thing could only lead to money failure and disconnection from the community and a crisis. Then the economy tanked, which hurt badly but also offered an excuse. When stories leaked out about the NLBM's terrible money problems, the inevitable quotes blamed the bad economy. It never felt worse being right.

This week, after less than two years, Greg Baker stepped down from the NLBM. I've heard from many people around town about it, and while the details would only muddy things up I can tell you that from what I have heard everything I feared happened in triplicate. The museum is not just in danger but in grave danger. And they are looking for someone to lead.

My friend Bob Kendrick now is executive director in the KC office for the National Sports Center of the Disabled -- he just put on a wonderful event in town featuring pitcher Jim Abbott. I don't know if he has been approached. A good man, Ray Doswell, who has been curator for a long time, serves as interim director. I've been told by several people that the museum will now return to the dream of Buck O'Neil. I hope so. I very much hope so. The Negro Leagues Museum was never going to survive as a tourist attraction. It can only survive, I think, as an ideal that inspires us, and challenges us, a place that makes us happy and sad all at the same time. That's one of the tougher tricks in the world -- happy and sad together.

"I wish you had seen us play," Buck used to say to me all the time. "We could play, man!"

Happy and sad together.

54 comments:

  1. I wish you had been wrong too, Mr. Posnanski. How sad.

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  2. Great post Joe. I'm glad to hear the museum is returning to Buck's vision. I hope it's still around when I get a chance to make it to KC again.

    Please keep us up to date on how things are going. I for one would happily donate to the cause if I knew things were on the right track.

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  3. I'm glad to hear the museum does continue, and I hope it finds new life now that there's been a course correction. My husband and I read your book, Joe, while on a cross-country road trip. So we couldn't resist making the journey to Kansas City just to see the museum you talked so much about. Thank you for sharing it with us.

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  4. Thanks for writing about this again, and I respect your reasons for not wanting to get into details about it. I certainly hope the museum survives, though as you say, it is going to be very difficult.

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  5. Two things:
    1. I can not think of a better reason to go to K.C. (OK, maybe the combination of Museum THEN BBQ).
    2. How rare it is for a writer/blogger/man-at-the-top-of-his-game to take the high road. There are, I assume, a thousand "I told you so" moments wrapped up in the Poz mind. The fact there is not one single point-of-the-finger moment is, well, it's simply awesome. I would expect nothing less of you Poz, and that's what makes it so great. I EXPECT you to take the high road, yet I smile in simple amazement every time you do. Not because I expect anything else, as I've said, repeatedly, but because it just doesn't happen.
    But, it does. Thank you.

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  6. I hope they are able to right the ship. I too was disappointed when Bob Kendrick wasn't named to run the museum. I was fortunate enough to run into Bob at the museum once when we was still working there. Anyone who reads this blog and is interested in finding out about the Negro Leagues should read Joe's book about Buck.

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  7. Uh...are you folks aware that this blog has a national (even international) readership? Nobody outside of a certain clique in Kansas City has any idea what the heck Joe is even talking about.

    Because he happens to be a splendid writer, this blog was interesting, fascinating, and made me wish I could step back in time to see Negro League doubleheader. But all the over-the-top obliqueness and walking-on-eggshell storytelling left me in the dark. If you're going to write an article about it, at least SAY IT, whatever it is you're trying to say.

    I love you Joe, I really do. I haven't missed a blog of yours in years. But sometimes you're too nice for your own good.

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  8. Great story, Joe. I looked around the NLBM site, and it says that it's "privately funded". Does that mean ordinary people can't donate? There's no donation link on the site, but people can become a member and/or buy things off their site, which presumably does help fund the museum. Here's the links:
    http://www.nlbm.com/s/membership.cfm
    http://www.nlbm.com/s/store.cfm

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  9. I'm from PA and married into a midwest family 12 years ago. We're in MN but they have KC connections and we went down a handful of times over the years. I'm still beyond irritated at myself that I waited until after Mr. O'Neil passed before visiting the museum. I know he wasn't always there, but even the chance to have met him would've been worth it. Still enjoyed my visit though but I knew nothing of the politics. I wish I were a wealthy benefactor.

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  10. Sorry for the double post, but I should point out that a certain blog author's book is available through their site. I have no idea about how gets what money from those sales, but I assume that, if someone were to buy his book, Joe would like it to be through the NBLM.
    http://www.nlbm.com/s/store.cfm?CID=29
    (scroll to the bottom)

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  11. I have no problem with the obliqueness here and respect Joe's restraint in not airing grievances or dirty laundry. What would be the point?

    What I do think would be helpful would be some specifics on just what it means to say the museum is in grave danger. What's the annual budget for the museum? How much is it losing? What, if anything, are they currently getting from corporate sponsors?

    MLB has a fairly deep roster of official sponsors. Many if not most of these companies spend nine figures a year on sports marketing. I think if you canvassed these companies looking for reasonably priced (<$1m) sponsorship of the museum you'd find some interest out there.

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  12. Anonymous @ 6:37: I respect your opinion, but I've never been to KC - been to Missouri, even have family in Kansas, but I've never been to KC -- and I was able to pick up what Joe was putting down.
    I would think, rightly I bet, that any American who's ever heard of the Negro Leagues would be alarmed to learn its museum is in peril.
    I hope it survives.
    And Joe, the point you made about how we all want to help as much as we can? Well, my wife lost her job and the check engine light came on while I was driving home tonight, so I'm not in position to help.
    I would if I could. The Negro Leagues always filled me with a sense of national shame because they were banned from MLB, and yet proud and awed by what they achieved against the odds.

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  13. Stephen: Privately funded means it doesn't get public (taxes) money. I'm certain they would be happy to accept whatver help you or anyone else can give.

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  14. Joe brought this up before about a year ago and I suggested that the Museum will probably have to be moved to an area in the country with a greater population center.

    I can't see a niche museum like this being able to sustain itself in the Kansas City area.

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  15. Joe:
    I know that this is totally irrelevant to the post. But I just finished your book, 'The Machine,' and loved it! As a history major, as well as a Reds fan, I appreciated the historical and social context you gave to that special summer when my favorite team had one of the best seasons in baseball history. It was great experiencing that year as a fan. But for young people, as well as geezers like me, you made it come alive. Thanks.

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  16. Joe,

    Can you suggest a book or two on the history of the negro leagues?

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  17. I like to read sports-related blogs (and their comments), and I'm always astounded by the high level of literacy and civility that I always find in the comments to this one. A good reflection on you, Joe.

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  18. I remember the original post Joe did on this. Much agro amongst the comments about where a niche museum could survive in any form following anyones visiosn being so far from the main population centers.

    Cannot believe MLB is not supporting it. I know it's not a part of MLB but there is a close relationship

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  19. Joe,

    As a Topeka native, I've read you from the beginning of your days with The Star and couldn't be more proud of your national success. We Kansans look at the SI cover stories and, like the elderly folks in a small town when a star hits it big, we say "I saw him before he hit it big. He used to play just up the road. He could hit, field, throw, run, and steal. He had it all." That aside, this post hit me in the gut. I'm only 27, but I'm a member of the NLBM, and I have a plaque my father and I made hanging in my room. It features two pictures of me shaking hands with Buck and talking to him, as well as an autographed commemorative Monarchs ball that he's seen signing in the picture. He spoke at the high school at which my mother teaches (I played hookey from my high school to go see him) and told them all "I'm not as young as I used to be, so I can't sign autographs for everyone, so I will sign a piece of paper and your principal can make a copy for you." I was disappointed, but I more than understood. On my way out of the gymnasium, he spotted me and saw I had a Monarchs ball I had purchased at the NLBM many years earlier. He said "Hey now, young man. I'll sign THAT for you!" and he did. I still tell people about that experience, which happened about 12 years ago.

    This is all by way of me saying that we need people EXACTLY like you to speak up and say what's right so the Bob Kendricks of the world have a voice from outside the NLBM management echo chamber. I agree with you that he was the right man for the job and I think anyone looking for the case for Bob need look no further than "The Soul of Baseball". But when he wasn't selected, and you essentially signed off writing about the NLBM for a while, I remember thinking to myself "That's too bad, because no one is going to hear about it otherwise." You're one of the few bullhorns we have to help in the preservation of this gem that I tell people in DC about all the time. A previous comment here illustrates the point. "Uh...are you folks aware that this blog has a national (even international) readership? Nobody outside of a certain clique in Kansas City has any idea what the heck Joe is even talking about." This is the problem and I just wanted to say I hope that as the NLBM makes decisions, hopefully, in the best interest of the museum, we fans can count on you to continue the top-level journalism you've always displayed and give us a different lens through which to view developments. Thanks for keeping Buck's memory alive and we're all proud of you.

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  20. This is actually part of a larger trend: in many parts of the country, state and local halls of fame are dying -- their exhibits uprooted and stored haphazardly while beleaguered curators go hat in hand, trying to find them a long-term home.

    Truth is, we don't seem very interested in history anymore. And too often help only comes from people with political or economic motivations.

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  21. I feel fortunate that the first time I visited the NLBM, Buck was there. He shook my hand, and hugged my wife (a little too long, and a little too tight). He signed a book for us, and gladly gave us 10 minutes of his time. Bob Kendrick happened to be giving the tour that day. You could tell the passion these men had for the place. Sadly, I believe those days are over. I hope I'm wrong.

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  22. The NLBM is in Danger.

    Grave Danger?

    Is there any other kind?

    A beautiful nod to the courtroom scene in A Few Good Men with Nicholson and Cruise

    I know Joe had some ideas for a "better ending" but I think it has something to do with some advice given by Col Nathan R. Jessup on Gitmo ...

    .... which made him very sad because until they elect some lady President he'll have to contine taking cold showers

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  23. What a waste of time and I am sure govt. money. Close the doors please.

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  24. Anonymous 3:51, great comment. My wife and I had the pleasure of meeting Buck at a grocery store not too long before he passed. He shook my hand very politely and then turned his full attention to my wife, smiled a little wider, and held her hand the rest of the time we talked. It's one of my favorite memories.

    We don't live in KC anymore, but one of the best things about the city is that you can visit the NLBM and when you're done go outside and walk right into the Jazz Museum. We did it a few times and those were always great afternoons.

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  25. As someone who has worked in art museums, I recognized a lot of the things Joe talks about - the individual names and specific conflicts aren't really necessary to recognize an all-too-common chain of events. Just about every museum struggles with poor leadership at some point or another, and its frustrating when the people in charge can't see how much is at stake. A couple comments:
    @Anon, 5:41 am - the museum is privately funded, which means that if it does receive gov't funds, it does so through competitive grants. And we should never let our temporary frustrations trump our obligations to future generations (that goes for you, too, Joe: speak up).

    @Anon, 10:04 pm - the Kansas City metro area has 2M+ people, which is plenty of people to support such an institution. The notion that cultural/historical institutions are only going to survive in LA, NYC, DC, or Chicago is dangerous. Every city has a right to such resources. And, in fact, admissions fees usually make up only a fraction of museum's financial resources - donations and grants are much more important. (so even if you can't go, give!)

    There's a tendency these days to see museums primarily as tourist attractions (and as economic engines), and to focus overly on attendance. Museums can and should try to get people through the door, but something like the NLBM is first and foremost a repository for our shared heritage. It's a resource we have on loan from our children.

    A museum like this deserves national support, and it deserves a national spokesman. Joe, I hope this post is a sign that you're feeling ready to be an advocate for it again. Projects such as this museum are often built on friendships and trust, but sometimes you need to set your feelings aside to keep them going. I hope you can.

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  26. Ben,

    I think you make some very valid points but I don't think an Art museum and a niche Historical Sports Museum are necessarily analogous.

    An Art Museum has a certain bourgeoise appeal to it and is likely if it's any good to be supported by local patrons with money. Also, an Art Museum can be constantly revitalized by having new exhibits promoting new and bold artists.

    The NLBM is basically celebrating a 30 year sub-genre in baseball that lasted from 1920-1950.

    Secondly, the 800 pound gorilla in the room is the fact that Kansas City is in the center of the country and a great distance from most of the population centers in the country.

    You're talking about a 20-28 hour car ride from the Eastern Portion of the U.S. where about 100 million people live.

    It's about a 23-35 hour car ride from the Western portion of the U.S. where approximately 60 million people live.

    It's even a 12-13 hour car ride from places like Pittsburgh, Detroit and Atlanta.

    Even from places like Chicago or Dallas it's still an 8 hour car ride.

    Kansas City may be a wonderful city but people aren't hopping on a plane and taking a vacation to go there.

    So I don't understand the logic in asking for National support for a niche sports museum when it's built in a location that makes it virtually impossible for 75% of US citizens to enjoy it.

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  27. anon at 9;42
    a couple books?
    Since this is a Poz post, one has to recommend "The Soul of Baseball"
    I loved this book, so I gave it to my dad for his 70-something birthday. He liked it so he gave it to his wife to read, and though she's not a huge baseball fan, she loved it too. It is a wonderful read.
    I read two books years ago that got me started on Negro Leagues history.
    Only the Ball Was White - Robert Peterson
    Invisible Men - Donn Rogosin
    There are probably better books - but these two got me started, and now I have a whole library of Negro Leagues history.
    Buck's autobiography is pretty good . . . I Was Right On Time - with Steve Wulf and David Conrads
    Carefull - once you get started its hard to stop.
    Wonderful stories. Wonderful people.
    Yes it is a sad story - but I trust that the NLBM will be an inspiring place to visit - when I can get there - because of these men and women whose story the NLBM is there to tell.
    Thank you Poz - such wisdom in telling this story as you did is in short supply!
    I figure I can't qualify as a Brilliant Reader - perhaps just "Fairly Bright Reader" - but let me say to most all of those who have posted comments to this point. Thanks for letting me hang out with you. . .

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  28. You would think/hope one of the more recent MLBers with the knowledge and appreciation for the Negro Leagues would step up and help. (And maybe they do. I have no idea what kind of funds the museum receives or requires.) Aren't Delino Deshields and Juan Pierre big baseball history buffs? Ideally, MLB should help - I'm sure they can afford it.

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  29. Ben,

    Also, KC has a population of 2 million but how often is even the most ardent baseball fan going to go to that museum in his/her lifetime, 2-4 times at the most? Then what? And from what I gather, the big attraction in going to the museum was to meet Buck O'neill.

    So I don't get the point of a lot of Mid-Western people in regard to this museum. They want it to stay in K.C. but they don't have enough resources to make it viable. They want national support yet it's out of driving distance for 75% of the U.S. population not to mention the entire population of Canada.

    Also why is it assumed that it has to be in K.C.? Yes, the Negro Leagues got their start in K.C. but the negro leagues were popular in many cities not just K.C., Newark, NY, Chicago, and Pittsburgh was just as important if not more important than K.C.

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  30. As an immigrant I came late to baseball, I was 30, I had played little league in another country but that is not quite the same. The negro league stories fascinated me, Satchel, Cool Papa and Josh were mythic figures from a bygone era and I loved every last, crazy one of them. What a shame that we are forced to struggle so hard to keep their memories alive, what a loss for future baseball lovers if the museum was no longer there. Joe, I have always thought that what I most appreciate about you is that you are the keeper of our legends.

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  31. The Museum is a great place to visit. Every time I drive down from Iowa to see my Tigers play the Royals, I drop in to re-visit the legends. Hopefully the new management can rectify matters and get it back on track. Note to Joe.....sounds like they need you. You know Buck would want you to help.

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  32. jquemere, I think the museum is suffering due to mismanagement, not necessarily because of your assertion that the midwest sucks, nobody lives there and nobody wants to go there.

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  33. jquemere, you're right that this is different from art museums, but not really ll that different; what I'm talking about applies to museums of all stripes. I'll make the point again that admission fees are usually (and should be) only a small part of any museum's operating budget, so this really isn't about location. Mark Daniel is right on, this is about mismanagement. People from all over the country (and the world) donate money to museums even though they don't live there, for all sorts of reasons. The several commenters who have suggested tapping MLB and its players (of all races) are on the right track, and I would think that there are enough wealthy sports fans out there that you could find a few hundred to get the museum back to rights.

    BUT, and this is the big but, before the museum can do that it has to show that it's well-managed. Rich people are not going to throw good money after bad. And potential high-profile supporters, like Joe or Ken Burns or whomever, are not going to spend time if they think the director will just waste it. That's a much bigger factor than convenience to "population centers." A well-run museum will thrive anywhere, even a backwoods town with no actual connection to the invention of baseball.

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  34. I don't understand the "it's so far away from everything!" complaint. Wouldn't that be a point in its favor? I mean, by that logic, if one were in Kansas City, wouldn't going to the NLBM be the only thing to do in that there one-horse town? It'll attract 100% of the tourists!

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  35. Mark Daniel,

    I never said, "The Midwest Sucks" those are your words, so don't attribute that statement to me.

    Most of the nicest people I've ever met came from the Midwest.

    As far as the your "Nobody Lives There" comment, again those are your words not mine. I said that KC had a 2 million population. The K.C. Midwest population is relatively sparse, that's just a fact of geography and population. That's like being upset from someone saying, "Rhode Island is a small state" or "California is a big state".

    As far as "Nobody Wants to Go There". K.C is not a vacation destination spot. That's nothing against K.C., but people plan vacations to dozens of other places before they would plan a vacation to K.C.

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  36. Ben,

    About a year ago or so Joe wrote an article on the very same subject and linked it to a piece about the dramatic drop in admissions over the last 5 years. The lack of visitors was a serious problem for the museum.

    I understand your point about money coming from donations but I would think admissions or the lack there of would have to be an important part of the discussion. Also what's the point of having a museum subsidized by outside money if no one goes there in the first place?

    Your comparison to the baseball HOF as a backwater town is not analogous to this museum. First-off the Baseball HOF encompasses ALL of baseball history plus there are Yearly election ceremonies that attract people from around the country.

    Secondly, Cooperstown is in the middle of a state that has 36 million people. New England has 10 million people and is 2-6 hours by car. New Jersey has 8 million people and is a 4-6 hour car ride, Pennsylvania has 12 million people and is about 3-8 hour car ride.

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  37. Stephen,

    K.C. is a 2 day drive from the East/West Coast. Very few people are going to take a 2 day car ride to go to a Niche sports museum. Very Few people are going to plan a vacation from the East/West Coast to go to K.C.

    The other option is to scale down the museum to accommodate the small about of visitors.

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  38. Obviously, the NLBM will never be the HOF&M, but my point was that the HOF&M is only as successful as it is because it has enjoyed the full-throated support of MLB (even if it's independent from MLB). I know that today Cooperstown seems like a given, but when it was founded in 1939 as a tourist attraction, it could just as easily have ended up where the NLBM is today. It's probably easier for anyone to get to KC today than it was to get to Cooperstown from Manhattan in 1939.

    It IS important for people to come to the museum, and for that reason many museums are doing away with admissions fees altogether, and seeing their attendance jump. I haven't read Joe's previous post, but the fact that NLBM was so heavily reliant on admissions fees is a sign of that it was being mismanaged. Great museums can and do exist in places much smaller than Kansas City, because they are able to generate support both from their local populace and a larger audience. For a well-run museum, populations within X hours of driving distance don't really matter all that much.

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  39. jquemere,
    I apologize for my comment. I guess in my old age I've grown tired of people from the East coast being baffled as to why anyone would put a tourist attraction in the Midwest.

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  40. Ben,

    Cooperstown is just as far today as it was in 1939. There are still no major highways to go directly to Cooperstown. Actually in some ways it was easier in '39 because of the train lines that used to travel all along New York State.

    How is going to K.C from NYC easier than it was to go to Cooperstown? One trip is 200 miles the other one is 1200 miles. Driving there is going to take 2 days with motel stay in Ohio plus about $120 dollars in gas or you could spend a couple of hundred dollars on a plane trip.

    Why should a larger audience have to fund a place that is beyond its realm of accessibility?

    And why does it have to stay in K.C.? Like I said previously Pittsburgh had as much or more of a history of the Negro Leagues. Put it in Newark.
    Put it next to Cooperstown in Oneonta.

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  41. Mark Daniel,

    No need to apologize, you must be from the mid-west because you seem like a nice guy.

    I'm from the East Coast and many people from the East Coast are real obnoxious A-holes.

    On the one hand I would like it to stay open in K.C. because I think it makes for a good tourist attraction.

    On the other hand it doesn't seem at all feasible that it can stay open in K.C. so I would rather see it remain open in a place like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Newark or Oneonta next to Cooperstown then closed.

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  42. If you object to Buck O'Neil's Negro Leagues Museum being in the city of the Kansas City Monarchs and Kansas City-style jazz,

    how do you feel about Glacier National Park being located way up on the Canadian border, far away from all the metro areas of 2 million +? Should we move it?

    If we can afford to entertain ourselves nearly to spiritual death and to finance trillion-dollar dumb wars that, in the end, don't accomplish anything useful, we can afford to preserve our heritage, wherever it's located. If we want to.

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  43. I'm not going to argue travel arrangements because, really, it's beside the point. I've been trying to make that clear.

    Moving a museum to a new city would essentially mean starting over, would require more money than staying put, and would not solve the problem if the museum continues to be mismanaged.

    As for "Why should a larger audience have to fund a place that is beyond its realm of accessibility?" Well, it doesn't, and I'm not saying it should. I'm simply pointing out the fact that lots of donors do support institutions they rarely visit because they see the value in that museum's activities. I'm perfectly happy to see my tax dollars go to parks and museums that I'll never visit, because I see the value in preserving those places and collections for future generations.

    Now, respectfully, I'm going to (try to) sign off of this conversation.

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  44. The reason it should stay in Kansas City is becasue we supported it for years and actually founded the damn thing. So keep you damn paws off you East coast elitist snob and have fun at the Guggenheim. p.s. if you ever came to Kansas City, you might find a few other attractions worth the trip, despite your obvious belief that flyover country is not worth the effort. I was born in New York. I lived in Philly for years. I thank God I had the sense to move here.

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  45. No need for the name calling Chance...

    Dave in Toledo, You're comparing an item that occurs naturally in nature like "Glacier National Park" to a man made structure, they're not analogous.

    I haven't heard any real solutions. The only solution is to solicit money from around the country to keep it open which doesn't seem very realistic.

    It's odd, it seems like people would rather have the museum Close than to have it moved to a more populated area.

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  46. "If we can afford to entertain ourselves nearly to spiritual death and to finance trillion-dollar dumb wars that, in the end, don't accomplish anything useful, we can afford to preserve our heritage, wherever it's located. If we want to."

    While reading the comments this morning, I was wondering how long it would take for this sort of logic to appear.
    This museum sounds to be a great institution. I'd love to someday visit it. If you want to contribute to it, visit it or support it in other ways, that's fine.
    Not one cent of "public" money should go to it, there being no real difference between direct tax and grant monies. It's very easy to spend someone else's money, one of the reasons Toledo is in the financial mess it is.

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  47. Bald men fighting over a comb! IMHO, unless you put the museum in Times Square there's a good chance it will go wanting for visitors wherever it is. The new generation of sports fan is historically illiterate and would rather banter statistics than see real-world displays. A virtual museum online is a pale shadow of Buck's vision, but might ultimately be the only thing that endures.

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  48. @jquemere - So by your logic, Kansas City should just quit and close up and everyone move to the east coast. I've been listening to this kind of "fly-over" mentality my whole life.

    The museum is in Kansas City because the Negro Leagues were founded there. A large reason they are in trouble is because of the mismanagement and treatment of Buck that Joe is talking about. A large part of the funding has come from Major Leaguers, current and old. They chased a lot of them off the last several years, so the key is getting them back. This is guys like Ryan Howard and BJ Upton.

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  49. I find it odd that people get upset when they are told that K.C. is not a popular tourist destination or that that Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska and Iowa have relatively small populations.

    Also people from the K.C. area do not want to mention that attendance is a major problem for this museum. And the mere suggestion that the museum may have to move to stay open is seen as a personal attack against the entire region.

    There's a problem when you build a Niche Sports Museum that's not within a 4 hour car drive for 95% of all Americans.

    I understand the whole K.C. aspect in the creation of the negro leagues but in Retrospect wouldn't it had made more sense if the museum were built in an area where Black people actually live instead of the Whitest area of the country?

    The black population of Missouri is about 600,000 people, Kansas has about 140,00 black people, Nebraska has about 70,000 black people, and Iowa has about 60,000. That's roughly 900,000 black people. The borough of Brooklyn has a population of close to 1 million black people all by itself.

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  50. Joe R., Did I ask somewhere for a tax dedicated to the NLM? (I do think that $2 trillion minimum creating more terrorists and accomplishing little else in Iraq would have been better spent paying down the national debt and maintaining our national parks, among other uses. And I do NOT believe there is anything divinely ordained about the current version of our economic system, whose primary beneficiaries have sold many of us that belief, among other nonsense.)

    There is enormous wealth in this country. Here are a few Toledo examples related to sports: We just used public funds to build new baseball and hockey venues. Our university has hit up some of the newer multi-millionaires to add to tax dollars and get their names on three state-of-the-(art, I guess) sports facilities. Lots of money is in the system. If you don't want to contribute to the NLM and don't want there to be a National Endowment for the Humanities, well, you have your private/public votes and I have mine. You can advocate, and so can I.

    Of all the reasons why Toledo is not as prosperous as it was in the 1950's, spending too much private OR public money to preserve significant pieces of our local or national heritage -- parks or museums, for instance -- ranks at the very bottom.

    First the question of "ownership" and administration of the Kansas City NLM needs to be resolved. Then, if it has a sensible director, let's find out how much the Museum needs in annual operating expenses and in endowment. Maybe some of us are talking about a modest museum with a primarily preservationist function, while others of us are imagining a vast empty Disneyballtopia that will somehow drain the federal treasury. . .

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  51. KC people, settle down. KC is probably a very nice place full of very nice poeople and very nice things. That's probably a fact. Also a fact is that it is not a top draw tourist place (actually I suspect there is an inverse relationship between a place's niceness and the number of tourists).

    More facts as I understand them. The museum is in financial (and management trouble). And attendance is not good.

    So I think we can join the dots without taking it as a personal attack. Yes it's sad but it's not personal.

    I think this is one of those look at the big picture things. You want the memory of the Negro Leagues to not die. So that means you have to tell a lot of people. Move it somewhere else or buy everyone free flights and accomodation to KC. Both will work. One makes sense.

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  52. Okay, I've been resisting, but I'll wade into the KC conversation (and, full disclosure, I live there).

    Here's how I know the location in Kansas City isn't the problem: KC has a number of other cultural institutions that aren't putting up the same bankruptcy red flags. There's the Nelson-Atkins Art Museum, which certainly isn't the Met or the Art Institute of Chicago, but is a pretty serious regional art museum (it's pretty much the one museum to attend if you're interested in Thomas Hart Benton or George Caleb Bingham, and it has one of the ten or so Caravaggio paintings in all of North America). No one is going to drive 1000 miles to go to the Nelson-Atkins, but the museum is doing just fine, because it is well-managed.

    KC also has the Steamboat Arabia museum, a private museum dedicated to displaying a whole bunch of shockingly well preserved stuff salvaged from an 1850's steamboat wreck that was excavated near the Missouri River in the 1980's. It is privately run, located in downtown KC, run largely off of admission fees, and as far as I know, doing just fine in spite of the fact that it is a niche museum in a mid-sized city.

    The National WWI Museum is in KC--most assuredly a niche museum, certainly not the Smithsonian National History Museum, and as far as I know, it is doing just fine.

    Cultural institutions can do just fine in mid-sized cities, especially if they are supposed to be niche museums. Hey, Brooklyn's great--I lived on the East Coast for a long time, and I love me some Brooklyn--but how much do you think it would cost for the NLBM to purchase the amount of space they have now in a neighborhood of Brooklyn that any tourist would ever be willing to visit? How much is two to four thousand feet worth of Park Slope storefront going for these days? And more to the point, how many visitors to NYC would forego the Statue of Liberty, Met, Natural History Museum, MOMA, Central Park, Empire State Building, or the freaking Rockettes so that they could attend what we'd all admit is a niche museum? Why not be the fourth-biggest-deal in a mid-size city (which does, believe it or not, draw a fair number of visitors for conventions, ag and bbq fairs, sporting events, etc)? Isn't that better than being the 40th or 400th biggest deal in the megalopolis?

    The bottom line is--either way could work. The question is whether the vision and leadership is there to make it work.

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  53. So, you never got around to meeting Greg Baker, you won't share *any* details about what an awful guy he apparently was, what was ridiculous about his plans for the museum, or any part of what actually happened to the museum over the last couple of years -- but we're supposed to just take your word that he ruined things...because why? You're Buck's buddy?

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