"It won't be long before we get the first wave of nonsense from stat-crazed dunces claiming there's nothing to be learned from a batting average, won-loss record or RBI total. Listen, just go back to bed, OK? Strip down to those fourth-day undies, head downstairs (to "your mother's basement and your mother's computer," as Chipper Jones so aptly describes it) and churn out some more crap. For more than a century, .220 meant something. So did .278, .301, .350, an 18-4 record, or 118 RBIs. Now it all means nothing because a bunch of nonathletes are trying to reinvent the game?"
-- San Francisco columnist Bruce Jenkins
When I was a kid in Cleveland, we had this unfinished basement where I spent a lot of my time. That probably explains my nuttiness as well as anything. It was down there that I used to put together absurdly involved sports recreations. In one of my favorite scenarios, I would put laundry baskets on each side of the basement -- it was a thin rectangle of a room with yellow brick walls and a concrete floor and two three tiny windows on the left wall near the ceiling -- and I would act out one-man plays of entire Cleveland Cavaliers games. I can remember being fascinated then that the Cavaliers had three guys on the team named Jim -- Jim Chones, Jim Cleamons and Jim Brewer -- and in my basement scenarios the three Jims were amazing. They could do anything. No matter how far behind the Cavaliers were -- and I usually had them fall behind by 20 or 25 -- the Jims ALWAYS brought them back. The Jims did the hard work. Then, my finisher of the day -- usually Austin Carr or Bingo Smith, but sometimes Campy Russell or Footsie Walker -- would come in to put the other team away. Needless to say that the Cavaliers were unbeatable in my mother's basement.
More often, I would throw hardballs against the walls and field grounders. In these exercises, I was almost always Buddy Bell. I may have mentioned a time or two that Duane Kuiper was my hero, and he was -- I spent pretty much every baseball game of my childhood pretending to be the Kuip -- but the basement was for Buddy Bell because I loved watching him make that long throw across the infield. He had an amazing arm, I thought. I would spend hours and hours and hours in my mother's basement throwing a hardball against the brick wall while pretending to have the arm of Buddy Bell.
I often would practice swinging the bat down in the basement. I tried many different times to invent a pitching-hitting game that would allow me to recreate the pitcher-hitter tension -- and every now and again I would come up with a reasonably interesting thing, like one where I would throw a tennis ball against the wall, wait on the bounce, and then swing the bat -- but it wasn't quite realistic enough, and I wanted realism. So more often I simply would imagine pitches coming in. If you saw me down there, you would see a little boy with thick glasses swinging the bat over and over and over again for no apparent reason. In my mind, though, I would swing the bat at imaginary pitches thrown by Nolan Ryan or Tom Seaver or Catfish Hunter. I was at my best in those moment. In actual Little League baseball games, against real young men throwing as hard as they could from 40 feet away, my nerve was shaky, and my form was a blend of tentative aggression and blatant fear, but in the basement my stance was balanced, and my swing was pure, and I hit everything on a line -- exploding fastballs and filthy sliders and back-breaking curves, everything. No pitcher alive or dead could ever throw anything by me in my mother's basement.
I shot jump shots against the stairs in my mother's basement. If I could land the ball so it dropped on the top step, that counted as a basket. If I shot it too soft, the ball hit a lower step and ricochet unpredictably. If I shot the ball too hard, it would bang the door and make a loud sound and inspire my mother to scream and threaten. But if I shot it just right, the ball would settle up there nicely and then hop down happily, like a child skipping into Disney World.
I had another game with those stairs -- I would throw a tennis ball up there and then try to prevent it from slipping past me for a goal. In this scenario, I was former NHL goalie Bernie Parent. I had just read Bernie Parent's biography -- creatively named "Bernie!" -- and it was (improbably, now that I think of it) the first full sports biography I ever read. I loved every word of it, and while the thrill of reading it played its small part in making me want to write I couldn't put that together then. So for a while I misunderstood that thrill and had the rather ill-considered goal of becoming an NHL goalie. My entire childhood I never once went skating, not even once, and so the closest I ever came to that temporary dream was kicking away and blocking tennis balls rolling down stairs in my mother's basement.*
*Years later, as a columnist for the Cincinnati Post, I was given the chance to be a goalie for a practice with the Cincinnati Cyclones. Two memories remain. One was a player "warming me up" by flipping 70- or 80-mph wrist shots off my pads. I remember this well because there was absolutely nothing I could do about it. I was not nearly quick enough to move out of the way or catch the puck or any of that. So he just kept hitting my pads with the puck, again and again and again, until he asked: "You warmed up?" I had not moved.
The second memory was of the photo in the paper the next day ... I was in goal and the puck was clearly pictured right beside my head, an excellent timing shot by the photographer. But the most arresting part of the photograph is that I am looking straight ahead, and am obviously completely unaware that there is a puck up by my head. I mean COMPLETELY unaware. I probably lifted my glove hand about 6 seconds later. No, I was never going to be a goalie.
I flipped baseball cards in my mother's basement. I read books in my mother's basement. I dreamed of becoming someone in my mother's basement. I invented games, learned how to throw a spiral (with a Nerf ball, but still), perfected my between-the-legs dribble (sort of), played marathon games of Monopoly and generally became the person I became in my mother's basement.
I've always liked and admired the work of Bruce Jenkins. But the top quote is so annoying and bizarre and convoluted and maddening ... how could anyone fighting for the integrity of resplendently crappy stats like batting average, wins and RBIs call ANYONE ELSE a "stat-crazed dunce?" Why are people who hate advanced stats so interested in the underwear bloggers wear?
And the whole statistical line -- .220 used to mean something, 18-4 used to mean something -- is just whacked. Sure, it means something. I don't think anyone would say there is NOTHING in batting average, wins or RBIs. Other stats just mean more. In 1973, Jimmy Wynn hit .220. He had a better year than Willy Taveras, who hit .278 in 2006, and a better year than Randall Simon when he hit .301 in 2002. Only four pitchers in baseball history have gone 18-4, and they all had good years, though I suspect most would agree that Mark Portugal's 1993 wasn't as good as Roger Clemens' 2004. Anyway Roger Clemens' 2005 was better than all of them and he went 13-8. As for RBIs ... I would hope that George Brett's 118 RBIs in 1980 might carry a little more weight in the mind than Dante Bichette's 118 RBIs in 1997. Neither was as dominant a year as Barry Bonds in 2002 or 2004 -- two of the more remarkable years of the last 50 -- and he didn't get to 118 RBIs either time.
Also ... the nonathletes line at the end is nonsensical. Does Bruce think that athletes invented batting average and RBIs? Does he think Walter Johnson sat at home and devised the archaic rules to define a pitcher's win? Lou Gehrig said "we ought to give an RBI to the guy who drives in a run?" I never stop being amazed by how much people who hate stats because they're "flawed" quote so much more obviously flawed stats.
More than anything, though, I have to ask: How could Bruce really think that one of the biggest cliches of our time -- the blogger in the mother's basement cliche -- was invented by Chipper Jones? This is like suggesting that the knock-knock joke was originated by Dermonti Dawson.
No, Bruce, that bit is ancient, and it's dumb, and consigning the person you disagree with into their mother's basement is just admitting you've run out of arguments. Anyway, it's wrong. My mother's basement was a wonderful place. It is, in so many ways, where I became a man. I visit there often in my mind. I'm usually wearing pants.
you read this knucklehead, jp?
ReplyDeleteThis is like suggesting that the knock-knock joke was originated by Dermonti Dawson.
ReplyDeleteClassic, Joe. And great article.
Right Joe, but when you were in your mother's basement you were a kid.
ReplyDeleteThe stat heads that live in their mother's basement do so because they have no lives, no appreciation for a real baseball game. No girlfriends, no jobs, nothing really except statistics and we know that because we're told so by people who refuse to believe that things can evolve.
This is a wonderful piece Joe, but try not to concern yourself too much with Bruce Jenkins. He's been illogical for quite some time now. We're talking about a guy who once wrote his annual Hall of Fame column and flatly stated that he couldn't vote for Will Clark because "...like...the classy Don Mattingly, he simply didn’t do it long enough", then went on to state IN THE SAME COLUMN that he voted for Mattingly. Logic isn't exactly his strong suit.
ReplyDeleteYou think this guy still thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth? Maybe WAR kicked his dog.
ReplyDeleteSomebody should be nominated to send this post to any person who is ignorant enough to use this tired cliche as a pejorative.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.firejoemorgan.com/search?q=jenkins
ReplyDelete3/18/2011 - The day the "sports bloggers live in their mom's basements" meme died.
ReplyDeletethank you, that was awesome.
The Earth is flat, the Earth is flat, the Earth is flat...
ReplyDeleteNice column Joe. I am amazed at how often you and Steve Rushin return me to my childhood. My mom's basement, like your mom's, had a cement floor and hosted all manner of monumental sporting contests. My grandmother used to knit slippers for me and my siblings each Christmas. On the cement floor of the basement "Forum", those slippers turned each of us into the kick-saving-est, pad-stacking-est goalies this side of Gump Worsley...and like the Gumper, we didn't use a mask in the face of tennis balls rifled inches past (on the good days, anyway) our ears.
Thanks for the trip back to mom's basement.
Jenkins has written, perfectly seriously, that people deserve awards based on whether they look like "real ballplayers".
ReplyDeleteSeriously, when did "older" people, and I am focusing on "mentality", rather than actual "age", become closed-minded idiots? And why? Is it the loss of "access"? Is it simply being questioned at all by someone younger? I have an inherent respect for anyone older than I am, but I will question stupid logic no matter who it comes from, younger or older. Yes, I believed everything my grandfather told me about sports while he was alive, but it doesn't change my love and respect of him when I find out he wasn't always right...
ReplyDeleteGreat post Joe. I don't care that much about stats of any kind, but the basement stories brought back some great memories. I spent hours and hours playing solo baseball and basketball down there.
ReplyDeleteBravo.
ReplyDeleteTerrific, When jimmy WEynn hit .220 I was down there, with the fake oak panelling, all our stacks of board games, the cat box, my Dad's workbench and the smell of rusty nails. Thanls for taking me back Joe
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid I made up a baseball game in which I (the pitcher) would throw a tennis ball against the stairs (the hitter) and field the rebound by throwing the ball back against a door next to the stairs. I had to catch the ball cleanly and quickly to make an out, and if the ball got past me I would rule it a double or a triple. I never played offense in that game, but I pitched for both sides and over the course of my childhood probably played a few full seasons. That game was awesome.
ReplyDeleteGreat column, Joe.
I'm also annoyed at the "non-athletes" dig. If we follow that line of thinking, nobody can complain about a bad repair job it they're not a mechanic, or say a movie was bad if they don't make movies, etc. But what makes it worse in this case is that Jenkins is not an athlete, either! His official bio doesn't even mention playing HS sports, but her certainly was not a pro. If his logic is to be accepted, he must immediately stop writing about sports since he is a non-athlete.
ReplyDeleteThese columnists have the distinct smell of the sniveling wannabes who become yes men for the cool jocks. You can't blame the jocks too much because their job isn't to think, its to perform.
ReplyDeleteThese guys, however. Take your brains out for a spin everyone once in a while, guys. Stop getting bogged down in some ridiculous and contrived "us vs. them" conflict and don't be afraid of what you don't know. You have a huge audience of young fans who are depending on you (less and less as time goes on) for insight and information.
Don't mess around with that responsibility.
For me, stats should not be as emphasized as they are. Sure, the homerun record and a 4-for-4 day mean something; but in the end, I think you can only use them in a general sense. Eras in baseball are just so different, it's hard to compare any of their players accurately.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I'm content with averages, HRs, etc. I just don't see why you have to get too specific.
"Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamppost: For support, not illumination". --Vin
There is actually a stat that does an excellent job comparing players from different eras. OPS+ scales a players offensive production both to era and home field. It is a reasonably accurate and easy way to compare any two players from any era. Posnanski has a good description of it on a post he did a couple weeks ago.
ReplyDeletehttp://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/03/my-guide-to-stats-offense.html
http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/03/my-guide-to-stats-offense.html
That quote from Chipper Jones is taken out of context. He isn't talking about statheads; he's talking about the trolls who frequent the AJC's website and write things like "Stick a fork in him." As Jones well knows, his internet defenders use advanced stats to make their case for him. For example, his ability to take a walk, as reflected in his on-base average, shows him to be more valuable in the lineup than a quick glance at his batting average would make it seem. Defensive metrics also show him to be a better third baseman than is generally assumed.
ReplyDeleteSo way to go, Jenkins. Not only are you trading in cliches, but you have to take quotes out of context in order to even do that.
My brother and I had a 6' tall mini basketball goal in our basement. One year, I cut out a list of the college All-Americans from the KC Star. All it had was the players' names, school, and points per game. We pretended to be the guys on that list. I was a between-the-leg dribbling, 3-point shooting point guard as I emulated the highest scoring guy on the list - Shaquille O'Neal. Guess that's another example of basic stats not quite telling the whole story.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that guys like Bruce Jenkins either ignore or try to forget is that many of the athletes they cover feel the same way about them.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@John:
ReplyDeleteI thought OPS+ was great, too, until I discovered that for most of baseball history (at least through the 1970's) the league-wide overall OPS+ is always 92-95, not 100. How that can be, I'm not sure, but it skews the data -- so the 1927 Yankees at OPS+ 127 are even more impressive than we might think. I wish I knew why that's the case, but it certainly doesn't help the "objective knowledge" cause.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"I dreamed of becoming someone in my mother's basement."
ReplyDeleteJoe, that line is worthy of Bruce Springsteen. Just beautiful.
Bruce Jenkins can pound out his nonsense 24/7 in his not-mother's not-basement until the day he dies, and he will never, ever come close to that one line.
Thanks, Joe.
Jenkins surfs. He grew up in Malibu.
ReplyDeleteOnce, sent to Paris to cover the French open, he complained that there were too many French people running around, in a column.
"Does he think Walter Johnson sat at home and devised the archaic rules to define a pitcher's win?"
ReplyDeleteActually, Walter Johnson pitched in the days of the CG. A W was a W. Of course, run support was a key player then as well as today. The 5 IP rule was so pitchers could get credit for a W in a rain shortened game.
Today, of course, the W is absurb. Daisukes 2008 season when he went 18-3 is proof of that.
I never had a basement as a kid, but I spent a lot of time in my bedroom, trying to create a stat that would measure the overall effectiveness of a hitter or a pitcher. Like just about everyone else who reads this blog, I suspect. Great column!
ReplyDeleteJoe - I loved this post. I find it so funny that Jenkins argues ".220 used to mean something" (this also coming from a guy who said that the Giants with the NL's best (albeit overpaid) fifth starter will just eat it and release him, but I digress)as if knowledge just has some endpoint. It seems to me if Jenkins had his way we'd all be living in caves instead of using new knowledge to build homes. I wonder if the recent earthquake in New Zealand which has people rethinking building codes is something Jenkins will avoid. Will he find himself a concrete structure in San Francisco because "concrete and masonry used to mean something"?
ReplyDeleteMy childhood too -- throwing tennis balls against the back of the house (I don't know -- now -- how the people inside put up with it) or against the front stoop.
ReplyDeleteAs to the "argument," you win.
In 1999, Jim Edmonds batted .250. Kent Bottenfield went 18-7. Based on those stats, who comes out on top in the trade?
ReplyDeleteWhen you go to your doctor with vague chest pains when you breathe deeply, do you want him to take your temperature, your pulse, and your blood pressure, and pronounce you fine and healthy? Or do you want her to run an EKG, perhaps an MRI, maybe even perform an angiogram? Heck, do you want to hold a breakable glass tube tasting vaguely of mildly toxic antiseptic under your tongue for a minute, or have an electrode pressed gently against your temple for a second, to take your temperature?
ReplyDeleteThe old stats tend to reflect excitement and enjoyment to the casual fan. Old stats let players go home happy that their favorite player did some good stuff even though their team lost. The new stats tend to reflect true value to the team. New stats help teams win. In general, teams need both. The biggest draws, the biggest revenues, accrue to teams that win (new stats reflecting value) and are fun to watch (old stats).
Old stats let me feel good about going to a game. New stats let me feel my team is doing the right things, especially in the hot stove league. Let's use them all.
If Joe starts out by saying something to you along the lines of, "I've always liked and admired your work and have always like you as a person..."
ReplyDeleteWATCH OUT!
@Phil
ReplyDelete"I wish I knew why that's the case, but it certainly doesn't help the "objective knowledge" cause. "
I believe that this has to do with pitchers. The league average for NL currently is sub 100. This way an average non-pitcher will be at 100, but the overall number, which includes pitcher's plate appearances, will be less than 100.
What I can't believe is that this whole war of words is still going on. I thought we stopped caring what Jenkins and his ilk thought.
ReplyDeleteBlah blah blah, stats are dumb, non athletes, nerds, mom's basement. Yeah, we get it. You're threatened by something because you don't understand it, and you don't understand it because you are too intellectually lazy to try to understand it.
It's so very boring. Anyone who thinks that pitcher wins tell you more about a pitcher than xFIP is just wrong and it's not worth caring what they think, because they don't care enough TO think.
I always wonder if these journalists, who accuse bloggers of non-athleticism have ever played a competitive game.
ReplyDeleteIt is through playing and scoring competitive amateur baseball that I have come to realise the worthlessness of statistics like errors, RBIs and pitcher wins and have come to appreciate things like walks and strikeouts, and regression of BABIP. (I do tend to bunt a lot since I can usually beat out the throw at first.)