Friday, August 26, 2011

The Myth of Pressure

A few days ago, I explained that I'm looking at my American League MVP vote a little bit differently this year. I'm going to vote for the best player. That's all. I've only voted for the MVP one other time, I believe, and I voted for who I thought was the best player then too -- that was Joe Mauer in 2009. But I readily admit that I used to try to dissect that word, "valuable," until it carried all sorts of vague and winding meanings. How did his team do? How often did he deliver clutch hits? How much value did he add as a leader? I'm not saying that's wrong, but I'm saying that stuff is (1) Difficult, perhaps even impossible, to know; (2) Of uncertain value; (3) Possibly beside the point.

The way I'm looking at it this year: The most valuable player is the best player. Determining the best individual player -- with an infinite number of variables affecting game -- is hard enough without trying to feel the intangibles.



I've heard from numerous people who disagree with my new method, and I certainly understand their main points. But there's one point I don't quite understand, one point that has been brought up countless times through the years though I'm not sure the people who bring it up ever really THINK about it. I know I didn't.

The point made by so many: "Players who are not in pennant races can't have their seasons taken at the same value because they don't face the same PRESSURE as players who are in pennant races."

I suppose the people who say this might mean it one of two ways -- maybe both ways.

(1) It's easier for players not in pennant races to play well because they are not under pressure.

(2) The production of a player who is not in a pennant race is not particularly meaningful (or valuable) compared to the production of a player in a pennant race.

Like in the old game show "21," I'll take the second issue first. What they're saying is that Jose Bautista's production in 2011 isn't worth as much as the production of Dustin Pedroia or Jacoby Ellsbury or Curtis Granderson because his team isn't in contention.

Baseball is won by a collection of players The MVP is an individual award. It's easy to confuse those -- easy and tempting -- but I think it's largely unfair. Seems to me that if a college golfer shoots the lowest score, he's the most valuable player of the tournament even if his team finished 26th. Seems to me that if an individual wins the 100-meter, 200-meter and long jump, she's the most valuable track athlete even if her team is no factor in the overall standings. Or, in another track scenario, the fastest runner in the 4x100 relay is the most valuable runner in the race, even if his teammates run like Molinas and the relay team finishes last. Seems to me that if person on a quiz team answers the most questions, she is the most valuable player even if the rest of her team happens to be filled with dunces and the other team happens to win.

Of course, you could say that these are largely individual sports and games … but no sport or game more meticulously or lovingly charts and measures and records individual achievement than baseball. I couldn't tell you how many great picks Derrick Rose set last year or how often Andre Johnson sprung a teammate with a great downfield block. But I can tell you exactly what percentage of the time this year, say, Michael Cuddyer swings at pitches out of the strike zone (32.5%) or how many infield pop-ups Brandon McCarthy has instigated (14). If we are so eager to record these individual statistics -- and we have this overwhelming record to draw from -- I think we should be able to determine who is the most valuable player in baseball without having to dive into the shady world of chemistry and momentum and reflected greatness. I'm not saying these things don't exist. I'm sure they do. But I think when it comes to determining who is the most valuable player, baseball has plenty of mystery in it already without us having to guess how much leadership and mentorship and gamesmanship and bullship a player provided.

Of course, people disagree. People will say that MVP should come from a winning team -- otherwise his production has little value. That's fine. In fact, that's the been the default position for more than 70 years. There's no point in arguing if you disagree -- your side has already won. But I don't buy it. I've come around to believing the MVP is the best player. How good or bad his teammates are is no longer in my equation.

Back to No. 1. That's the real point of this post. I've just heard so many people say through the years that it's EASIER for players on lousy teams to put up good numbers. After all, they are free from expectation and tension. They generally don't have to play in front of big and involved crowds. They don't face that daily pressure that a pennant race provides. This year's victim of the theory is Bautista. Sure he's having a good numbers year, the line goes. The Blue Jays are out of it.

It seems to me that people often say knee-jerk things in sports -- that is, stuff that makes no sense if you actually put any thought in it. For instance, people all the time say about a management group or a coaching staff or a group of players something like: "They don't want to win." Isn't this kind of dumb? Who doesn't want to win? They used to say this in Kansas City constantly about former Chiefs GM Carl Peterson. He doesn't want to win -- he just wants to fill up the stadium.

This is obviously illogical. OF COURSE, he wanted to win. AND he wanted to fill up the stadium. AND even if you believe the second was more important to him (unlikely, I might add), well, there is no way to fill up the stadium without winning. Was there anyone out there who really believed that Peterson was sitting in his office 12 to 16 hours a day while thinking: "You know, in the end, I don't really care if we win." But people kept saying it (still say it) out of sheer frustration. It's easier I think -- rather than admit that the world is complicated, that honest effort doesn't always pay off, the good plans fall apart, that luck isn't spread out evenly -- to question a person's heart.

This line -- that it's easier to put up numbers without pennant pressure -- is a lot like that. Nobody can possibly believe this. First of all, there's the obvious flaw: If it was easier to put up numbers in non-pressure situations, then players would consistently and obviously have better years on lousy teams than they do on good ones. Does this ring even the slightest bell of truth? Does anyone believe Derek Jeter would have put up better numbers had he played for Kansas City? Does anyone believe Albert Pujols would be so much better if he had spent his career playing in the carefree world of the Pittsburgh Pirates? Roy Halladay was great for mediocre Blue Jays teams and is great for outstanding Phillies teams. Hank Aaron was the same great player with the same great numbers when Milwaukee won, when Milwaukee almost won, when Milwaukee wasn't very good at all.

Second of all, many of the numbers that people have historically treasured -- wins and RBIs in particular -- are team-driven statistics. That means that it should be significantly easier for players to put up those numbers when they play on GOOD teams. Example: Jose Bautista has ONLY 82 RBIs, while Curtis Granderson has 98 RBIs. Why?

Well, Bautista has come up with runners in scoring position 133 times -- and 16 of those was intentionally walked. In all, he's come up with 306 runners on base.

Granderson has come up with runners in scoring position 159 times -- and he's not been intentionally walked. In all, he's come up with 360 runners on base.

So, you tell me in which situation it's easier to knock in a lot of runs.

But the third thought is more personal. If you've read this blog at all you know: I've covered a lot of bad teams in my life. I've been around some good ones too. And as far as "pressure" goes … well, from my observation, it's not even close. There is infinitely more pressure on players on lousy teams than on good ones. Obviously, this depends on how you define pressure, but if the textbook definition of pressure is "the feeling of stressful urgency cause by the necessity of achieving something," well, absolutely, there's way more pressure on the lousy teams.

Think about it: What pressure is there on players in pennant races? The pressure to win? Sure. But players come to the ballpark energized. Everyone on the team is into it. The crowd is alive and hopeful. The afternoon crackles. Anticipation. Excitement. There is nothing in sports quite like the energy in a baseball clubhouse during a pennant race. Players arrive early to prepare. Teammates help each other. Everyone's in a good mood. There's a feeling swirling around: This is exactly the childhood dream. The added importance of the moment could, in theory I suppose, create extra stress. But the reality I've seen is precisely the opposite. The importance sharpens the senses, feeds the enthusiasm, makes the day brighter. Baseball is a long season. Anything to give a day a little gravity, to separate it from yesterday, to make it all more interesting … anything like that, I think, is much more likely to make it EASIER to play closer to the peak.

A losing clubhouse? Exactly the opposite. The downward pressure is enormous and overwhelming -- after all, who cares? The town has moved on. A Hawaiian vacation awaits. Teammates are fighting to keep their jobs or fighting to impress someone on another team or just plain fighting. The manager might be worried about his job. The reporters are few, and they're negative. Smaller crowds make it easier to hear the drunken critics. Support is much harder to come by, and there is constant, intense force demanding that you just stop trying so hard. After all: Why take that extra BP? You've got the swing down. Why study a few extra minutes of film? You've faced that hitter before. Why take that extra base? Why challenge him on that 3-1 pitch? Why? You're down 9-3 anyway.

It's absolutely AMAZING to me when a player puts up a fantastic year even when the team around him stinks. Cal Ripken's 1991 season is like a miracle. For him to play every inning at shortstop for a 95-loss Orioles team, for him to hit .323 with 34 homers and drive in 114 runs for a team that finished 10th in runs scored, for him to play Gold Glove shortstop behind a legendarily bad starting pitching staff … yeah, miracle is the only way I know to describe it. It's one of the great seasons of the last half century, and it was accomplished against a howling wind. He did win the MVP award that year, but by only 30 points over Cecil Fielder, who who hit .261/.347/.513 (all dramatically lower than Ripken) but did bang 44 homers and drove in 134 RBIs for a high-scoring Tigers team that was vaguely in contention.

Ripken was three times the player Fielder was that year. The argument for those who chose Fielder, I can only assume, is that Fielder's numbers mattered more or that Fielder's numbers came under more pressure. The first argument seems unfair to me. The second seems ridiculous.

73 comments:

  1. Agree totally. Pick the best guy, period.

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  2. Joe, please let me say that I am a HUGE fan, and I love your writing and you're dead on almost all the time...I just have 1 question that I cannot figure out for the life of me; what's with your love for Jose Bautista? I get it, he's good. But as a "baseball" guy, doesn't the fact that almost everyone in the game believes he is cheating (stealing signs) sway your opinion? I mean, he was on the cover of ESPN the magazine just this past issue. I have a hard time believing that Jose Bautista is having a more "valuable" of a season than Justin Verlander is. I am normally 110% opposed to a pitcher winning the MVP (that's why they have a Cy Young award), but when someone is having a season like Verlander, and there really is no clear cut MVP hitter, why not vote for the player truly having the best season? Verlander has been heads and shoulders above every other player (not just pitcher) in the game this year, in both leagues. Just my opinion...keep up the great writing.

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  3. I think sports pressure needs its own term, the way jeterate and clemenate make it clear that we are talking about sports and not about, well, life.

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  4. I've always felt this way, Joe. Hopefully more voters will start to come around to this common sense approach. As you've discussed in some of your past musings on this award, maybe the problem really is the name of the award. Just call it the "Best Player In Baseball" award and be done with it.

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  5. Excellent post, Joe. How impressive it is to be surrounded by failure, indifference, incompetence, or even run-of-the-mill mediocrity, yet to still excel!

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  6. I agree. I think you could make a fair argument that it is harder to put up good numbers on a losing team. If you are out of it then it is harder to stay focused and finish the season playing hard. A good team will generally have better players which means more men on base when you are at bat, harder for pitchers to pitch around you, etc. The fact that Grienke was able to keep his focus the entire season he won the Cy is still a little surprising.

    In respect to Carl Peterson, I don't think it was so much that he didn't care about winning, but that winning was secondary to attendance and money. He wanted the Chiefs to win enough to make the playoffs and keep people interested, but didn't seem to care about actually winning the Super Bowl. All those playoff teams (several with 14 and 13 wins) and only 1 playoff win. I think that speaks volumes about Carl Peterson's focus. All those teams seemed to be missing that one piece, but he would never spend the money.

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  7. the other thing to consider is that the player on the bad team has to face the good team and the player on the good team gets to feast on the bad team several times a season. therefore, the good team player gets additional opportunities to face an inferior opponent and doesn't have to face his own team.

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  8. Hi Joe,
    A further point regarding "pressure" that has been largely ignored in the MVP discussion is that neither the Red Sox nor the Yankees are actually under any sort of pressure, because there is basically no doubt that both teams will make the playoffs (BP sets their playoff odds at 99.7% and 99.1% respectively). While there might be some benefit to winning the pennant as opposed to the wild card, surely the resulting "pressure" is nowhere near as intense. Thus, if one wants to play the "pressure" card, surely a player from the Tigers (Verlander, presumably) or the Rangers/Angels is the choice. Furthermore, Bautista knows that unless he has a good day at the plate, the Blue Jays will have trouble scoring runs, whereas Pedroia/Granderson/etc. know that if they have bad games, their great teammates can pick up the slack. So one could argue that, notwithstanding his mediocre team, Bautista is under more individual pressure.

    Also, as a fan of the Blue Jays and of Jose Bautista, I have to respond to the second comment above. First, I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that "almost everyone in the game" believes he is cheating on the basis of four unnamed players in an ESPN report. Second, the validity of the report has been questioned in several quarters (see Jonah Keri in Grantland, for example). Third, by the numbers there is a clear-cut MVP non-pitcher (Bautista), so the argument of Verlander-by-default is weakened. Fourth, and most controversially, IF Bautista was stealing signs (or taking steroids, or using a corked bat, or whatever else the rumour-of-the-day might be), does it actually reduce the value of his performance? I accept that many will disagree, but it seems to me that the moral and/or legal consequences of a player's actions can and should be divorced from the value of the player on the field. Bonds "may have" cheated, but that doesn't change the fact that he was the MVP in 2001.

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  9. Joe, I must respectfully disagree. You say that people are confusing an individual award with the collective winning of a team. But we are talking about "value" here, and how else can a team measure value unless it be against winning?

    Let's say you make a pact with the devil where you get to hit 100 home runs for the next season, but your team will finish dead last. When negotiating with the GM of a contending team, what sort of value are you bringing to the table?

    You had a great post some months back where you spoke about Ichiro Suzuki, writing that he was "one of the greatest hitters in baseball history" but not "one of the greatest offensive forces in baseball history." This, to my mind, explains why some players can cruise into the Hall of Fame while never winning the MVP. When summing up a career, we value players who performed at a consistently high level, but in any given year we value those who win the big games. One gets into the Hall while the other gets the MVP.

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  10. Letters & Numbers: Where's your evidence of this allegation? Some guy in white in the bleachers? You'll have to do better than that--especially when making accusations of cheating.

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  11. Joe:

    I think you do the Milwaukee Braves a disservice with this statement:

    "Hank Aaron was the same great player with the same great numbers when Milwaukee won, when Milwaukee almost won, when Milwaukee wasn't very good at all. "

    Little known trivia fact, the Braves never had a losing season in Milwaukee.

    Of course, I guess you could be referring to the couple seasons Hammering Hank had with the Brewers in the mid 70s at the end of his career. Those teams went 134-189.

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  12. A. MEN. God I hope the next generation of sportswriters reads this blog.

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  13. "doesn't the fact that almost everyone in the game believes he is cheating"

    no, they don't

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  14. Kit: Nope. One gets the team MVP and the other, better, most outstanding player in the league, deservedly gets the BBWAA MVP.

    I am a Cardinals fan, I don't have a pony in this race this season. But Joe posted earlier this week that he isn't talking about value. He is not voting "value," he is (I believe, rightfully) voting production. And that is where your reasoning fails to make the distinction.

    In your deal-with-the-devil scenario, if you are getting paid a mere league minimum to hit those 100 home runs, even if your team finishes dead last, you are of almost infinite "value." Your performance, like the Ace in poker (thanks Joe and Bill James, I will use the analogy for the rest of my life), is not dependent on those around you. If your performance is better than his performance, it is better. The end.

    Ced: Seconded. Now...the end.

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  15. I couldn't agree with you more, Joe, about rewarding the best player rather than the most "valuable." Why penalize the best player on a successful team just because one or more of his teammates is also having a great year?
    All the talk about Verlander has made me think that if you follow the value argument that the one player whose team would have suffered the most if he weren't there, it would mean that the ace of a staff would almost always be the MVP. Where would the Angels be without Weaver or the Yanks without Sabbathia?

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  16. Sometimes the MVP is won in September when some player goes off for a month and, seemingly single-handedly, delivers a pennant to his team. But right now, the Yanks and Red Sox are mortal locks for the playoffs, the Tigers are suddenly 6.5 games up in the Central and the AL West contending teams don't have a viable MVP candidate (unless you consider Jered Weaver).

    This fact may take that "putting the team on his back in September" wild card out of the equation.

    Bautista's problem may not be that he's on a non-contender, but that he's not really been in the headlines much the last couple of months. It's probably unfair to say, but he might have to pick up the pace a little to garner himself some more MVP attention.

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  17. Just wondering what stat(s) you would use? It seems to me that the clearest stat for any one season would be WPA. The sum total of the contributions made to the team winning. If a pitcher is the highest in the league that year, well he does deserves the MVP. I'll save you the trouble of looking it up, as of today there are clear leaders in each league:

    AL: Jose Bautista
    NL: Joey Votto

    It is not especially close.

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  18. Hi Jamie,

    Still have to disagree. In my scenario (which obviously involves impossible-to-have foreknowledge), no contending GM is going to take a player is who guaranteed to cost the team, no matter how good the player's numbers look. Where's the value proposition? When "infinite value" can mean a sure loser, words have been twisted out of all recognition.

    The poker analogy never quite works, in my opinion. While I could spill out pages trying to explain, I think the most concise way to look at it is this is to ask: Why wait until the end of the season to determine the MVP? Yet we can do this before or after any hand of poker, and the ace still "wins" in that it has the highest value, but it is really only before the cards are dealt that we think of the ace that way. Once the game starts we think in terms of "worth". Value and worth are distinctions; value and production are apples and oranges.

    And the analogy breaks down again because in a winning hand it is silly to think of any individual card as having a higher worth than the others--the combination wins. So, the analogy is flawed, beginning to end.

    While I can understand the desire to honor the league's most outstanding player, the MVP is not that award, neither historically nor in the way the average fan thinks about value.

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  19. The analogy isn't flawed. The Ace, on its own is still the best card. If you were picking a hand from scratch, you would want an Ace on it more than any other card. Therefore, it has the most value. If that still doesn't work for you, use the example Joe did of the relay race. If Sprinter A rushes out to a massive lead only for his teammates to blow it, wouldn't he still be the best, and most valuable sprinter in the race? Again, if you were building the relay team off of that one race, who would you pick?

    As for the 'pressure' myth, I couldn't agree more with Joe. But beyond that, I would assume players (especially MVP caliber ones) aren't motivated any differently by their surroundings but instead, utilize intrinsic motivation. I doubt Jose Bautista goes 'Well, we're not in the race, I guess I'll just play right field with my eyes closed today'

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  20. Kit, I really don't understand your story about the deal with the devil. You're using an impossible literary device to claim that a real-life ballplayer isn't worth anything to his team.

    Jose Bautista did not make a deal with the devil that he would play great but the Blue Jays would not contend. We all know this, so what is it that you are trying to say?

    Regards the playing card/poker analogy: Let's say it's seven-card stud. Magically, you are allowed to pick ONE card in advance, and the others are random. I don't know about you, but I would pick an ace. Are you saying that it doesn't matter what card you pick?

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  21. I think this line: "baseball has plenty of mystery in it already without us having to guess how much leadership and mentorship and gamesmanship and bullship a player provided." is one of my favorite things Joe has written. I love it.

    @Kit:
    Your scenario is so bizarre that I can't see how it relates to the MVP debate. Of course no GM would take a player if it guaranteed a last-place finish. But when is it the case that a player who is otherwise "productive" causes his team to lose? Do players actually make deals with the devil in which they trade off "production" for wins? In the real world, I think there is a strong positive correlation between an individual's production and his team's wins.

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  22. Joe and Post #1 have it right. By nature if you're the best, you would be the most valuable.

    Also, Verlander may not even be Cy Young, so I don't see him contending that closely for MVP.

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  23. I agree with Joe's choice of Bautista because it's not close. In my proposed methods in the other thread, I think the numbers I suggested back that up. And I agree that all players feel pressure to perform well. Why else why are there guys playing the same position in AAA, AA, and several A leagues, as well as on the bench in the bigs?

    But if it is close, consider this:

    Players on winning teams get far more requests for their time from media (especially out of town media) than do players on losing teams. More reporters cover winning teams than losing teams, and the best performers on a team generally have more to do with winning more often, and thus get more pregame and postgame questions.

    Repeat autographs, if for no other reason than winning teams draw more fans and thus more autograph seekers.

    Repeat publicity, charity, and community events.

    Repeat friends and relatives wanting scarce tickets to pennant race games.

    All these things add up, and although society calls them pressure, what they really reflect are demands on the players' time. Thus, there is left time left for sleep, for running and weight lifting, for doing whatever relaxation is needed between games, for reviewing video and practicing the voodoo that MVP candidates use as preparation.

    Also, the press of interest does cause pressure. You have kids. When one kid asks, "Daddy, pay attention to my problem for ten minutes instead of getting ready to do your job," it's easy to say yes. When two kids ask, it's still easy. Ten kids, now it gets harder, and tempers start to fray. Fifty requests make it that much harder to not get annoyed and have it affect what you do.

    And that is why it is meaningful to be on a pennant race team. All those things add up. They are not worth 100 points of OPS+ IMO. They are worth 10 points, or 0.1 WAR. Whether they are worth only 10 OPS+ or 20, or 75, is up to the voter. But to call the number zero does not reflect the reality: it's harder to be prepared, mentally and physically, to play at an MVP level, when you are in a pennant race.

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  24. All those playoff teams (several with 14 and 13 wins) and only 1 playoff win. I think that speaks volumes about Carl Peterson's focus. All those teams seemed to be missing that one piece, but he would never spend the money.

    I think this does say a lot about Carl Peterson... just not what the poster thinks it says. The guy built a perennial power! They won tons of games! How was he not "spending the money"? How can an upset - or even repeated upsets - have anything to do with the GM's focus? He's not throwing the ball or tackling runners: that's why Peterson hired Joe Montana and Derrick Thomas to do that stuff for him.

    And especially in football, whose trade deadline is about 38% into the year... it's just about impossible to add a piece to put your club over the top if you find a flaw during the year. So you make your offseason moves, and hope that what made sense on paper in June will still work on the field in January.

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  25. Disco raises a great point. Pitching is about preventing runs. Jered Weaver has the best ERA in the AL this year. He and Verlander each have 4 complete games and 2 shutouts, and that doesn't include TWO games that Weaver threw nine shutout innings and got no decision because the Angels don't compare to the Tigers offensively. Weaver has allowed 9 fewer earned runs in 14 fewer innings. Weaver has allowed 14 fewer runs total, which suggests that Verlander's extra strikeouts don't mean much in preventing runs. Yes, Verlander has 46 more strikeouts, but also has allowed 5 more homers. The ERA lead for Weaver is 0.25, which is quite significant when the ERAs are so low.

    Verlander's WAR according to B-R: 7.4.

    Weaver's is 6.5.

    So that leads me to three points:

    1) WAR (at least B-R's version) has some flaws in it if they see almost a full win more for a pitcher who is not at all clearly more effective.

    2) If WAR is flawed for pitchers, is it really safe to use for hitters?

    3) Verlander and Weaver are both having incredible years. Weaver's close to finishing with an ERA below 2 in the DH league. That's one of the all time best years ever. Why are they both so far behind Bautista in WAR?

    Since pitchers get Cy Young awards, my mythical MVP vote goes to Bautista; it takes more of a lead for me to choose a pitcher MVP over a hitter than a non-contender MVP over a contender. But if Bautista weren't in the AL, I'd pick either pitcher ahead of (probably) Granderson.

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  26. In real life, many of us are pretty good performers in pretty bad organizations. Count me among them. But for a few years I was in a big-time place loaded with talent and recognition and money, and the folks there weren't any smarter or more skillful or more dedicated. They were just in a position to succeed--which is a lot less pressure than busting your butt to maintain mediocrity.

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  27. Totally agree, Joe. Of course, we've seen the Cy Young already change from one that values 'Wins' to one that values ERA - in other words, one that separates team stats from individual stats. So it won't surprise if that affects MVP votes in time.

    that said, the traditionalist in me doesn't mind using 'being on a winning team' as a tiebreak.

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  28. Two thoughts about your college golf example:

    1. The NCAA awards team and individual championships in golf, so there is an opportunity there to recognize the lowest scorer regardless of how the team does.

    2. In sports without that option, there is a Most Outstanding Player award given, which I think avoids most of the problems around being valuable. The question there is whether or not the people who vote for the award make a difference between being outstanding and being valuable.

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  29. The "pressure argument" is used simply as a means to further one's own opinion about a player's performance and is used in either sense depending on what is needed at the time. Take a typical NFL example:

    A) QB1 has no competition for the starting job.

    "He'll do fine now that he's not looking over his shoulder. Having no pressure means he'll do great!"

    B) QB1 and QB2 are competing for the starting job.

    "This competition will bring out the best in both guys! The pressure will make both of them do great!"

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  30. Joe agree with most of your post, but this paragraph doesn't ring completely true: "For instance, people all the time say about a management group or a coaching staff or a group of players something like: "They don't want to win." Isn't this kind of dumb? Who doesn't want to win? They used to say this in Kansas City constantly about former Chiefs GM Carl Peterson. He doesn't want to win -- he just wants to fill up the stadium."
    I also used to think that everyone honestly wants to win. However, I moved to Cincinnati several years ago and, while I'm of course still an Indians and Browns fan, I've come to realize Mike Brown is not motivated to field a winning team. Before you dismiss my indictment of Brown, consider his handling of the Palmer situation. He had a player with some remaining value who refused to play for his team. Instead of trading that player for a 3rd or 4th round pick, Brown dug in his heals and did nothing and got nothing for the player.

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  31. I'm not the first one to think of it this way, but I've always thought of the MVP as the guy who makes a difference between his team making the playoffs and his team not making the playoffs. Justin Verlander is a perfect example of that idea this year. Without Verlander, the Tigers are most likely not in contention for the playoffs. With Verlander, the Tigers are dominating the Central. Can you say the same for anybody else? I'm sure that if the Red Sox didn't have Ellsbury or Adrian Gonzalez or Pedroia, they would still make the playoffs. Maybe not as division winners, but at the very least with the Wild Card. Same thing for the Yankees with Granderson.

    Looking at the award that way doesn't necessarily reward the best player in baseball, but you are rewarding the player who has the biggest impact in baesball.

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  32. As I've thought about this more, I'm actually inclined to agree with Kit on this one. Kit makes a subtle point that Joe's argument in favor of Bautista for MVP relies on the shaky premise that there is a positive relationship between a player's performance and team wins. Put another way, this assumes that the Blue Jays will miss the playoffs in spite of Bautista's big numbers, and not because of them.

    It's easy to think of a scenario where a player with good numbers actualy makes his team worse. For example, he may be giving signs to opponents (what if the Man in White is a double agent?), or administering poison to teammates' food.

    A more likely situation is the one mentioned in Kit's original post. Namely, there may be a deal in place with the Prince of Darkness. I know that one's soul is usually the currency of choice in these types of arrangements, as opposed to team wins, but since Bautista is likely a steroid user, his soul is probably not worth much anyway. It would make sense that the Devil would ask for wins instead. There is no reason to think that deals with the devil don't exist. For example, members of Led Zeppelin are widely believed to have made such a pact.

    Come to think of it, Led Zeppelin IV seems like an appropriate rock music corollary to the kind of season Bautista is having

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  33. There are two problems with WPA (which someone suggested as a potentially good one-stop-MVP-stat-shop).

    The first is that it is highly context dependent. That's not necessarily a huge problem in the MVP discussion, as it is very much a direct measure of how much a player has improved his chances of winning. That said, a hitter on a team with a terrible pitching staff is less likely to come up in the high leverage situations needed to improve his WPA significantly. In a sense, it suffers from the same fundamental problems as RBI, even if it is more modern and precise.

    The second and, I think, bigger problem is that it does not account for defense or position at all. Players like Troy Tulowitzki in the NL or Ben Zobrist in the AL who are valuable not just because they are accomplished hitters, but because they provide excellent defense at prime positions, are unduly discounted by WPA.

    Ultimately there is no one-stop-statistic that tells you who should be MVP (though I would argue that WAR is a better starting point than WPA, even if it is far from perfect itself). The more information voters consider, the better their choices will be.

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  34. Hi Arvind,

    Almost all analogies are flawed. With poker, if you knew your opponent was holding four kings and that you needed the ten of clubs to complete a straight flush, how happy are you to draw an ace? Value vs. worth. How's the analogy holding up for you now?

    Relay races are not baseball. As individual as baseball is, few think think that the ideal team is simply the composite of the best players at each position. Imagine a great player, the heart and soul of his team, a team built around him from the start. Let's say that he is generally admitted to be the second best player at his position. How many would claim that it would be a slam dunk to replace him with the best player? Could Magic and Bird at their peak have been exchanged to make one slightly better and one slightly worse team? It just doesn't work that way. Are we saying that Jordan would have been as valuable if not more more valuable on a no-name team (imagine the numbers he might have put up!) than on a championship team? Crazy talk!

    Clashfan,

    The purpose of the, admittedly impossible, deal with the devil was simply to show how in an extreme case a great player need not help his team, how we might have a disconnect between performance and value at a team level.

    For your seven-card stud example, let's change that to to say that you always get an ace for the last card while I am free to chose. Are you saying that your high-value ace must always matter? I think we can say the analogy is flawed.

    Marshall,

    I basically agree with you about the correlation of production with wins. Still, prima donnas sometimes have deleterious affects on team moral, and I suppose that can lower the correlation. But my bigger point is that from a team's view, wins have value, not performance, and (unstated) that wins of contending teams have greater value than the wins of other teams.

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  35. Is it possible that when they invented this award in the 1930s they had any inkling of how the intricate and minute nuances of the word "valuable" would be cut and diced, or relied upon as though it was handed down from Mount Sinai? If so, would they have chosen a different word?

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  36. Kit, the seven-card stud analogy works if you understand that the value of the card is considered independent of the context. The word 'independent' is the key. MVP is an individual award; it doesn't (or shouldn't) matter how the team does. We're not looking at this from the team's point of view; we're looking at it from the outside. We're trying to ascertain who the best player in the American League is. We are not trying to figure out if it's worth it for the Blue Jays to extend Bautista's contract.

    You're trying to compare basketball to baseball, when basketball is MUCH more team-based. Magic and Bird played different positions, fer cryin' out loud. We cannot quantify how much intangibles correlate to performance--that's why they're intangibles. If you can't quantify it, then how do you know how valuable it is?

    In your thought experiment about the second-best position player at the core of his team, details make a difference. What is the difference between your guy and the top player at his position? Is there a salary difference? Is the top guy a real jerk, or of average 'intangibles'?

    You know what? If we picked two all-time teams, Team A as the top players and Team B as the second-best guys, then yes, Team A would beat Team B over the course of a 154 or 162 game season. I don't care if they're Cobbs and Bondses or Gehrigs and Ripkens.

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  37. "1) WAR (at least B-R's version) has some flaws in it if they see almost a full win more for a pitcher who is not at all clearly more effective."

    The difference is in three parts: the Tigers rate as a terrible defensive team and the Angels a great one (Tigers: .690 Defensive Efficiency; Angels: .710), a park effect (which is a vagary that will be adjusted, so it could be different, whatever), and fourteen IP are basically an extra two good starts.

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  38. And of course there's NO POSSIBLE WAY that Ripken could have done all of that using steroids.

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  39. Kit,

    Your rebuttal to the poker analogy makes no sense. You are creating a situation where the 10 is only valuable because it has a 9,8,7 and 6 backing it up. In other words, you are saying that the 10 is a better card because of context specific situations.
    Saying the 10 wins the hand is logically fallacious. Cards, on their own, don't win hands. A collection of cards does. But if you were to ask which card, on its own, in a vacuum is the most valuable / productive / useful / (insert your own definition for valuable), then its an Ace.

    If you still disagree with this, then think of it in terms of money. Lets say to get my team to the playoffs I need $100. I have two wallets.

    One of them has a $50 bill, and three $5 bills and spare change adding up to $10

    The other has a $25 bill (pretend it exists), three $20 bills and spare change adding up to $15.

    The total for wallet 1 (lets call them the Teal Sparrows) = $75
    The total for wallet 2 (call them the Ruby Stockings) = $100

    If you could have 1 bill, what would it be?

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  40. @Dinky -

    By definition, measuring prevention is tougher than measuring production, which is what really makes WAR (or anything else) problematic for pitchers.

    If I say that Slugger Smith hit 35 homers, got on base 40% of the time, and drove in 120 runs over 155 games, those are easily measurable. It's not terribly hard to say that this is "X" wins more valuable than Average Anderson or 2X wins more valuable than Yuni Betancourt.

    Now take Verlander's ERA. Well, that's really a measurement of how often per nine innings he FAILS at his job, not at all a measure of his success. Same with his WHIP - it's how often he doesn't get guys out. That makes it tricky to predict how many more wins he might be worth than a comparable pitcher, or an average pitcher, or a lousy one. Then take into account that WAR adjusts for park effects, so that Verlander's ERA might be more impressive than Weaver's even if it's higher - or vice versa.

    I have no problem with thinking of WAR as much more reliable a measurement of hitting than pitching (or defense). I still think it has value for pitchers, however. Maybe pitchers rarely lead the league in WAR because it's easier for an everyday player to impact the team's performance. They get 120 more games to contribute something than a starter. That might accurately reflect the relative values of an everyday superstar vs. an ace.

    It's something more to think about, anyway.

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  41. @Arvind, Kit - enjoying the poker analogy debate. You know you're getting into deep water when you start using analogies to explain the analogies. =D

    Regarding the wallet thing, though... I think this is a problem when equating it to poker. The $50 is ALWAYS going to be worth $50. The Ace, however, is not ALWAYS going to be worth the pot. The comparison between money and cards breaks down right there, because it compares a context-specific thing (poker) to an absolute measure (total dollars); it's apples and oranges.

    Instead of saying that you need $100 to make the playoffs, say that you need one of every kind of bill. In that case, if you already have the $50 in wallet 1, another one in wallet 2 is not much help. You would actually be better off trading it for all the lower bills you need - $20, $10, $5, $2, and $1 - even though you're out twelve bucks at the end of it.

    Or to put it another way: Arvind has two fifties, and I only have $35. But I've got a ten, three fives, and a mess of singles. If Kit needs to break a $20, Arvind can't help him; I can.

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  42. I think that in @Kit's scenario the Devil would be the MVP. Or at least, like, all time GM. After all, the Devils say: You will hit 100 home runs, but your team finishes last. And then he makes it happen. Or: You will hit 0 home runs, but your team wins the World Series. And then he makes it happen. So after a very short while, an owner would simply hire the Devil.

    In closing: your argument really is quite stupid.

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  43. "Maybe pitchers rarely lead the league in WAR because it's easier for an everyday player to impact the team's performance."

    Usually it has to do with hitting. Ubaldo had 7.2 WAR from pitching last year, but lost .4 from hitting, so Pujols ended up leading the NL.

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  44. Dinky, WAR is cumulative, so Verlander's 15 more innings may give him a bit more in the WAR department. Also, baseball-reference calculates WAR by taking into account park factor (Detroit is a better hitter's park than Anaheim) and defense (Anaheim has a better defense than Detroit).
    Also, their calculation takes into account the teams faced by each pitcher. You can perhaps boil it down to Verlander having faced the Red Sox and Yankees (the two best offensive teams by a significant margin) 4 times to Weaver's twice, and Weaver has faced the historically impotent Mariners 4 times to Verlander's twice.

    That alone could be the difference between the two players' ERA. However, my point is that if you adjust for all these things, which Baseball-reference somehow has done, you get Verlander at 73 runs better than a replacement level pitcher while Weaver is 59 runs better.

    Weaver could still catch up, though. The Angels still have the Yankees and Texas a few more times on the schedule. In contrast, everybody Detroit faces the rest of the way is sub. 500.

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  46. nightflyblog,

    Thanks for your input. Which analogy do you think better suits baseball? Poker or wallets? I think that baseball, in actuality is a mix between context specific and absolutes, but for the purposes of evaluating players for MVP, I would lean more towards absolutes. In my analogy (of my analogy), I was trying to show that while the Ace does have context specific utility, it has absolute value. Thats kind of what I was trying to get at, and I don't think I expressed that particularly well.

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  47. 1) If we consider "valuable" as not simply to the team but to the sport, than the best player is usually going to be the most valuable. Obviously, sometimes a great story might be of more "value" to the game, but in general, a great performance is what I think is the most valuable.

    2) Who was worth the most? In other words, whose performance in itself created the most wins? That would be the most valuable. (If I sell $1million for a crappy company and you sell $800K for a good one, I still am more valuable).

    3) I know a lot of us don't buy it, but don't old-timey analysts claim things like that hitting with another good hitter behind you helps you? In that case, it's easier to be good on a good team than on a bad one. Of course, if they reject that, they might also reject other old-timey thinking.

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  48. Arvind - you nailed it right here: I think that baseball, in actuality is a mix between context specific and absolutes.

    A home run is always better than a single. It's always a guaranteed run. You can't ever get a guy tossed out on the bases stretching a single. You can't strand a guy who reached on a home run. Add or subtract as many baserunners or outs as you like - the homer will score more guys in each of those situations. That's your Ace, your $50.

    The context comes when you start to string them all together to win ball games. A lineup that hits a lot of homers AND makse a lot of outs will often be outscored by a string of guys who all work counts, walk a lot, and mix in singles and doubles. One Ryan Howard beats one Bobby Abreu... but nine Abreus could outdo nine Howards. That's where your ten-high straight will beat three Aces.

    Loving the discussions, but have to go board up the windows now. Wheeeeeeee.

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  49. You can't ever get a guy tossed out on the bases stretching a single.

    OK - oops. You CAN, obviously, as I seem to have proved by running my mouth into a bad out.

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  50. Exactly. I feel that in evaluating players, specifically for awards, that absolutes are probably more useful.

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  51. Wow! This is amazing! I'm an aspiring sports writer, please check out my blog at http://sportswithjarred.blogspot.com/

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  52. clashfan
    Your card analogy would hold if the goal were to draw seven cards, then declare the hand with the highest sum to be the winning hand. As a rough, first approximation of most sports, this is probably a decent way of estimating strength. But it is certainly not poker. If you tell me that the best player in baseball has just been signed by my home team, I'll probably be excited; if you tell me that the last card I draw is an ace, well I don't really care. A good analogy should be made of sterner stuff.

    Are you trying to say that poker more closely resembles baseball on a team basis than baseball resembles basketball? Because if not, then what point to you think you are making here?

    I agree that one cannot quantify intangibles. I guess that is why people vote on the MVP instead of simply running all that stats through a spreadsheet.

    As for your top A Team, I think, given the long history of the game, that one could always craft a B Team that would have the A Team's number. In fact, every season we will see cases where team A beats B beats C beats A. Why?

    As for the MVP being an individual award that doesn't (or shouldn't) depend on how the team does, well that just flies in the face of how it has generally been awarded. Joe will be voting on the best player and has been explaining why. You write as if my objection were completely outside of the discussion.

    Arvind,
    Think of it this way: Barry Bonds is a good hitter to have in your lineup before the opening pitch, and he is a good hitter to have at the plate for any given pitch. An ace is involved in the most winning hands and so a desirable card before the deal, but in the middle of any given hand it might well be useless. So, bad analogy.

    Nightflyblog
    
Thanks for the good laugh!

    Jim
    The argument was that individual performance need not be correlated to team value, not that the devil exists. Sorry for the confusion but thanks for reading.

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  53. Let me make one last attempt to sketch out my argument:

    1) Players like Ichiro Suzuki and Nolan Ryan show that putting up good numbers might not always be as helpful to a team as they might first appear;

    2) Player value in a team sport is about winning games;

    3) Wins in a championship season (or at least a contending season) count more than those in a losing one;

    4) Therefore the most valuable player is he who contributes the most wins to a contending team even if he was not the best in the league as judged by pure performance.

    So, pace Joe, I see the MVP as a mix of individual and team.

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  54. Joe is the Jose Bautista of Sports Illustrated. Having an MVP year surronded by a bunch of hacks!

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  55. Couldn't Barry Bonds be useless in any given game/season as well. I don't think the analogy is perfect, but its pretty good.

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  56. Joe, after grazing over the stats as of right now I do agree that Bautista is the MVP. That said, I think you are setting yourself up for a misstep in the future. Or you don't believe 100% what you are saying. If the situation occurred where Bautista and Granderson had identical stats, you would have to go with Granderson because he's on the winning team. The pressure/winning idea must be put in place at some point. Discounting the value of that completely doesn't make sense.

    I also feel that your last couple of paragraphs are broad sweeping generalizations. Judging the demeanor of one player can't be done by assimilating every player into one group. Not every player thrives off the energy in a winning clubhouse; not every player has their energy diminished by the losing clubhouse. It's a majority, but not every player. That's why I feel that your reverse logic is somewhat contradictory. You're in way reversing the preconceived notions of pressure to support what you're saying. If you write off the theory of pressure, then you must write off the theory of no pressure.

    So I feel the voting process for the MVP is mainly splitting hairs. Much like the Hall of Fame. A 162 game season delivers such close stats, and such close contenders for the MVP that these tie-breakers like pressure and winning must be used. If Jose Bautista is the runaway winner then he should win. Obviously. But if the stats are extremely close. Like let's say Granderson is hitting .300 and his OBP and Slugging % are closer to Bautista then you would have to give it to him. I'll slip in that Bautista has 1 SB and Granderson has 24.

    My main point is that voting for an MVP can't be black and white. You can't say there's no pressure. Or that winning doesn't matter. Or all players thrive off the energy, or that every player is weighed down by being out of the race. As much as we want the process to be simple and concise, and say "He's better than him, His WAR higher", we shouldn't do it. Making it easy, isn't necessarily making it right.

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  57. If I couldn't decide between two candidates... I'd probably pick the guy who seemed less fluky.

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  58. @Kit I'm still certain what you're saying really is quite stupid. You're changing the nature of the game, from a system where output (wins) is a function of a variety of inputs, e.g., players, management, luck, to a system where output is a function of a single input: the pronouncement of the Devil. Alternatively, you seem to be arguing that output is a function of output. Thus, none of your arguments tell us anything about how baseball, as currently constructed, actually works.

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  60. @Marshall; At least a few GM's would take a player if they knew that the player would hit 100 HR's, but the team would finish dead last.

    The press, the national attention, and most of all the millions of fans spinning the turnstiles to see the record setting performance would make it a no-brainer for at least a handful of GM's.

    Almost any GM in a 'small' market would have to at least consider it.

    Think about it; you already know that you lack the resources to compete for a pennant, your farm system is lousy (or at least a year or 2 away)...Why not?

    You can't tell me that a Dayton Moore, a Jed Hoyer, a Neal Huntington, or any handful of others wouldn't take that risk?

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  61. Folks, let's face facts. The reason we're getting bogged down in the poker analogy is that it's a dumb analogy, and Bill James is simply wrong about poker. He's right about baseball more often than not, just as Joe is right about the MVP, but the idea that the Ace is always the most valuable card is just asinine. Poker--unlike baseball--is the perfect example of a game in which value is non-linear, and thus contextual rather than absolute.

    Poker is won with hands, not individual cards; the hands are always made up of your best five cards, and there's no such thing as a hand of one. So the idea of an individual card being more or less valuable is actually kind of meaningless. Obviously 9-9-7-7-A beats 9-9-7-7-Q, so all else being equal higher-ranking cards are better--but even then the Ace gets its value from the hand (all else being equal, you'd prefer a third 7 to the Ace). In poker, unlike baseball, it makes perfect sense in some situations to hope for a "single" (a 7 or a diamond or whatever) rather than a "home run" (an Ace), depending on what hand you're trying to make. In Hold Em, if the public cards come out a straight flush, it doesn't matter whether you have pocket Aces anymore. The question of whether those Aces are "really" more valuable is just navel-gazing, like asking whether Green Lantern could beat Captain Marvel in a fight or something.

    So let's all stop arguing about poker and continue arguing about baseball, in which a single is more valuable than a sac fly, a double more valuable than a single, and so forth, always and without exception.

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  62. There’s seems to be a bit of irony here in using Wins Above Replacement to determine the best player and then saying it doesn’t matter if he’s not on a winning team.

    It’s also ironic that sports writers continually criticize the MVP voting - voting which is done by sportswriters. While Joe commendably plans to vote for the best player, my guess is that most sportswriters over the past 80 years have also voted for who they thought was the best player, by whatever criteria they used to determine that.

    One further irony: When a team is losing, as Joe alluded to about the Chiefs, they are accused of not caring about winning; when teams like the Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies, they are accused of caring only about winning.

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  63. If some team is stealing signs it doesn't matter in the least because there is no rule against it.

    Next are you going to demonize players for getting hits against pitchers who tip off their pitches?

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  64. @Kit, No, what I'm saying is that poker more closely resembles basketball than either does baseball. The ace is Kevin Garnett. He's great to have as a start (the first card), but it's important what you put in place around him. Without the right mix, he's toiling for years in Minnesota; with a better hand, he's winning titles in Boston.

    Baseball is a much more independent sport. It's much easier to measure individual contributions. It's more similar to the game you described, wherein the card values are summed to find a winner. (And I didn't tell you the *last* card was an ace, you made that up; I said the *first* card would be an ace, which is different and you know it.)

    Regards Team A/Team B, what I am saying is that if we called up from the past Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Nolan Ryan, etc., put the best players on one team, and the second best players on another team, and had them play each other 162 times (not 6 times or 12 times, 162 times) then Team A would win. They won't win 100%, they won't win 70%. But they will win more than 81 games. And it doesn't matter if Team A has Ty Cobb and Barry Bonds while Team B has Lou Gehrig and Cal Ripken.

    Why do the Royals sometimes beat the Yankees? Luck.

    Yes, this does fly in the face of how baseball has thought about the MVP for years. So does the idea that pitching wins and RBIs are not good ways to measure player value. How we look at things changes.

    From 2001-2003, I don't think there was a better player in the American League than Alex Rodriguez. Over the three-year span, his OPS was over 1.000, and his OPS+ were 160, 158, 147. As a shortstop. The Rangers finished last in the AL West all three years. He only won one MVP, even though he was clearly the best player. Is is fair to punish Rodriguez because the rest of his team sucked?

    I don't know how you can say that a player putting up good numbers isn't helpful to the team. I'm also not sure what it has to do with this discussion.

    The MVP is an individual award. I don't know how to say this more clearly.

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  65. "There’s seems to be a bit of irony here in using Wins Above Replacement to determine the best player and then saying it doesn’t matter if he’s not on a winning team."

    Jose Bautista should murder Adam Lind and Edwin Encarnacion and clone himself, twice, and then the Jays would be alright.

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  66. Going back to subject of pressure and clutch performance and all that...

    I always thought we had too expansive a definition of clutch performance. These guys are pros; even in the heat of a penant race, they play almost every day, so the routines and rhythms remain familiar whether they're 2 games ahead or 20 games behind. Someone who felt an extreme level of pressure every time he came to bat late in a penant race probably doesn't have the sort of personal makeup that projects to a major league career. So hot streaks in September--just as in May--are probably more fluky than clutch.

    Still, moments do probably occur that separate the chokers from the clutch performers, even in the big leagues: bases-loaded, two outs, down by one in the bottom of the eighth against your closest rival, that sort of thing. We know that because we've all had the feeling ourselves, playing softball or rec league basketball, batting or shooting free throws with the game on the line. And many of us distinctly remember choking in those situations. Are MLB players immune from that kind of breakdown? Probably not all of them.

    You hear a lot of athletes say that bad things happen when they start thinking about the situation, rather than letting talent and muscle memory take over. I suspect that this is a large part of what we refer to as choking. And in that respect, both for a pitcher and catcher, the 8th or 9th inning is different from the 2nd or 3rd, especially in a penant race.

    The problem is that we'll probably never be able to measure this phenomenon adequately because there are too few data points per player. Did Scott Norwood choke in Super Bowl XXV, or did he just miss a long FG because he was second-tier kicker? Who knows? When the Padres lost 10 games in a row last year and destroyed their season, it sure looked like they were pressing and wilting under the pressure. But maybe it was just a brutal regression to the mean for a team playing over their heads. We all thought Barry Bonds couldn't handle the pressure of the big game, and then he went and tore up the 2002 World Series.

    So I think there are chokers and clutch players. But their moments are so few that it seems silly to tie clutch performance to MVP voting. Just pick the best player.

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  67. If the argument comes down to what "value" means, I think there's a pretty clear answer: team revenue added. That's the impact that teams are forecasting when they bid for free agents, after all.

    So the MVP is the player whose performance is estimated to have generated the biggest increase in his team's revenue over the season. This clearly leaves a player like Joey Bats in contention, but it also gives some additional weight to key players on teams that are in playoff contention. This isn't an either/or proposition.

    People who have studied some economics (like Bill James) will recognize that the concept I'm arguing for is called "value of marginal product." Since "MVP" is made up of the same letters as "VMP," I believe it's obviously the best interpretation of the true purpose of the award.

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  68. In response to an earlier poster, people generally give it to pitchers when there isn't a clear cut MVP candidate because nobody has been all that great. Right now you have the clear cut MVP candidate going by best player (Bautista) and then multiple great MVP candidates from contending teams (Granderson, Gonzalez, Ellsbury, perhaps Cabrera). It's not like you have a bunch of players who have been good but not great, or no real great players from contending teams.

    Off the top of my head without looking deep into it, I'd probably go Bautista, Granderson, Gonzalez, Ellsbury. I was thinking Ellsbury over Gonzalez a week ago but then he hit a bunch of home runs and now his power numbers look a lot better than they did before (when he was almost entirely propped up by hitting a lot of singles). Granderson's hitting for the most power (not counting Bautista who I had at #1), still getting on base a lot, is seeing 4.50 pitches per plate appearance to lead the AL, (an often ignored stat that I always liked...lots of pitches equals tired pitchers/weaker parts of the bullpen having to pitch, and Granderson sees way more pitches than any other candidate except Bautista, and he still has a decent lead on him). Plus he's got some stolen bases thrown in. Pedroia could have a case to be in the top 5 as well, but he's fallen off some last I checked and doesn't really compare as well to the others I don't think, unless you 100% swear by UZR (which I think is fine, but I do think defensive stats have their problems and will continue to do so as long as they can't come to any real conclusions...it'd be like if one offensive stat said a guy hit for a .320 average and another offensive stat said he hit .250...they agree often but sometimes are so different it calls into question whether they're such a "be all, end all" stat for defense that it should be a major factor in a players value).

    But yeah, Bautista's clearly the #1 to me, but whether he wins it or not, I don't know. He'll be hurt by the fact that he's on a non contending team, where most of the other MVP possibilities are on teams that are winning his division or the wild card, plus he hasn't been as good lately; stupid as it is, people care more about what they do in August and September, even when not in a playoff race, than what they did in April and May.

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  69. It comes back to that word again, "valuable". That's the most annoying word in all of these postseason awards because it can be interpreted in so many different ways. I actually see the point of people who take it literally and will refuse to acknowledge Bautista as the most valuable because his team isn't in first. I'll use a car analogy. Let's say you have a car with a diamond-crested steering wheel. The rest of the car is a normal Ford, but the steering wheel has $100,000 worth of diamonds on it. The steering wheel is obviously the most valuable piece of the car. But just as functional to the end result would be a replacement steering wheel you could pick up for $10 at an auto parts store. So really, what was the point of having the expensive steering wheel when the rest of the car is of replacement value? If you think about it, Jose Bautista isn't really "valuable" to the Blue Jays at all. He doesn't do much for their attendance. All he really does is make them an 85 win team instead of a 75 win team. That and a dollar will get you a burger from Wendy's.

    I'm all for changing the name of the award. Or continue calling it the MVP, but defining that as "Best Player". But then, we wouldn't have this to argue about anymore. And who needs that?

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  70. Value can be defined as “the monetary worth of something” or “relative worth, utility or importance” or “a numerical quantity that is assigned or is determined by calculation or measurement”.

    These definitions can easily lead one to assert just about any argument possible to what the MVP award should be. But if we think of the award in a certain way, I think it becomes clearer how the MVP should be chosen.

    How we define value seems to be the key concept here. In just about any other walk of life, the place a thing or a person occupies would have little bearing on their value. For example, the most valuable baseball card in the world for many years was the 1909 Honus Wagner card, dubbed the Gretzky Wagner after Wayne bought it for $451k. He later sold it for $500k. Would that card have been worth less if instead of being owned by Gretzky Marty McSorley had owned it?

    Is the best doctor in town not as good because he works at a free clinic instead of the most profitable private hospital?

    If the best lawyer in a city decided she wanted to leave private practice and work for the public defender’s office would she become a worse lawyer?

    The place where one works really has no bearing on the quality of that person’s work. There are salary differences in different regions of the country, but that is not the same thing.

    Another way to think of this is to ask, “What player would be most coveted if all players were free agents at the same time?” That would be an interesting scenario. Would it be Pujols that GMs scrambled to sign? Or would it be Halladay? Verlander? Some young stud with potential? This raises the question of what is more valuable: current production or future potential? The conclusion is that different people value different qualities in a situation like this.

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  71. Expansion drafts have offered examples of different philosophies of player acquisition. For example, the Rockies went for mostly older (relatively) players who had a decent amount of MLB experience. Charlie Hayes, Jerald Clark, Kevin Reimer, Jody Reed, Joe Girardi. The average age of players the Rockies took in the 1st round was 26.4. With the exception of Eric Young, all the position players taken by Colorado in the first round had at least 290 games of MLB experience with an average of 493 (567 if you don’t count Young). Only one player had seen no time in the big leagues. They took eight hitters and five pitchers.

    In contrast, the Marlins’ 13 players taken in the 1st round of the expansion draft had an average age of only 24.4. They were going for younger players to build for the future as opposed to the Rockies strategy of trying to win lots of games right away. They took guys like Nigel Wilson, Trevor Hoffman, and Darrell Whitmore who were hot prospects but had not cracked the big leagues yet. The average service time for the Marlins’ first-rounders was only 47 games! Seven guys had yet to make an appearance at the major league level and another guy had only played in three MLB games to that point. Only one player taken exceeded 200 games in the majors and that was closer Bryan Harvey coming off of an injury. Only one hitter taken that day by Florida had appeared in more than 40 MLB games, Bret Barberie. The Rockies had winning seasons in three of the first five years of existence against Florida’s one winning season and went on to be the first of these teams to make the post season by qualifying as the wild card in 1995. However, the Marlins’ strategy proved better as they won the World Series in 1997.

    Based on some of the signing bonuses for draft picks, we could make the mistake that some of these guys are more valuable than major leaguers making below the average salary. But are they really? Who has been more valuable to his team this year: Gerit Cole, who got an $8 million dollar signing bonus, or Jerry Hairston who makes $2 million this year?

    We should be thinking of the MVP award as going to the player who has had the best season; who has played the best of anybody else during the season. That is not too hard to quantify. It shouldn’t be about the best leader, or the best teammate, or any other sort of unquantifiable metric. Which guy had the best season on the field? Who was most productive? Fairly simple concept in my view. To me, the best player is the most valuable player by default.

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  72. Regarding Joe’s point about “They don’t want to win”. I agree with him about people like Carl Peterson. I would imagine every GM and coach and player wants to win. I would even think that most owners want to win. However, even owners who want to win don’t necessarily take winning seriously. I don’t think winning is the first priority for most owners. Maybe a handful of owners like Mark Cuban, Jerry Buss, maybe Jerry Jones. But the rest of them don’t have winning as their top priority. Making money is most important to them. Making money is certainly important because if a team can’t run profitably, it won’t be around very long even if it wins. However, look at a team like the Rockies. The ownership knows for a fact that they are going to get a certain amount of suckers to come through the gate every year no matter how good or bad the team performs. They project this along with other income streams to a total revenue expectation and then they order O’Dowd not to exceed that figure. A simple and brilliant business model that O’Dowd executes flawlessly every year. How else can one explain why he still has his job? A brilliant business model but a terrible way to build a winning team.

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  73. This new browser is giving me lots of problem. I am searching for blood pressure gauge but instead I arrived at your blog, thanks to that new plugged it. grrrr

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